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You can have a blockchain without bitcoin, but why is that useful or interesting? Isn't the Nakamoto distributed consensus the key innovation of bitcoin as a pr

You can have a blockchain without bitcoin, but why is that useful or interesting? Isn't the Nakamoto distributed consensus the key innovation of bitcoin as a protocol? Without that incentive structure in place, we can't trust the state of the blockchain without also trusting the participants. This may work fine for banks, but so does ACH.

detaro 11y ago
> You can have a blockchain without bitcoin, but why is that useful or interesting? Isn't the Nakamoto distributed consensus the key innovation of bitcoin as a protocol? What does the second have to do with the first? Just because bitcoin was the first to use it, doesn't mean everything that uses same mechanism suddenly is "Bitcoin", at least not in the commonly used sense.
- tlrobinson 11y ago
  Parent commenter answered that: "that incentive structure" The "blockchain" works because all the mutually-distrustful participants' incentives are roughly aligned (in theory). You can't attack the network without spending a huge amount of money on mining hardware, and as long as you're financially motivated you'd be better off just mining (again, in theory) You could have a "blockchain" without mining, but it wouldn't provide the same properties Bitcoin does, and solutions that give you similar properties to such a system have been around for a long time, and are probably faster and more efficient. I think banks are now interested in the "blockchain" because of some combination of hype, FOMO, and fundamentally misunderstanding Bitcoin/blockchain.
  - detaro 11y ago
    Yes, but there are tons of blockchains that have mining and the same incentive structure, but you wouldn't call them "Bitcoin"? from "simple variations" (Litecoin) to projects building additional features like Ethereum. Bitcoin is only one application using such a blockchain.
    - tlrobinson 11y ago
      The implication when finance people talk about "the blockchain" is they want the properties (or at least the hype) of Bitcoin's blockchain without Bitcoin (or any other alt-coin) the currency.
      - paavokoya 11y ago
        >they want the properties (or at least the hype) of Bitcoin's blockchain without Bitcoin (or any other alt-coin) the currency. A blockchain without a currency or decentralized network is called a database. All banks currently use one already. There is no reason for any of this. Think of it like intranet (blockchain) vs. internet (bitcoin). Sadly, many do not realize this.

detaro 11y ago

> You can have a blockchain without bitcoin, but why is that useful or interesting? Isn't the Nakamoto distributed consensus the key innovation of bitcoin as a protocol? What does the second have to do with the first? Just because bitcoin was the first to use it, doesn't mean everything that uses same mechanism suddenly is "Bitcoin", at least not in the commonly used sense.

tlrobinson 11y ago
Parent commenter answered that: "that incentive structure" The "blockchain" works because all the mutually-distrustful participants' incentives are roughly aligned (in theory). You can't attack the network without spending a huge amount of money on mining hardware, and as long as you're financially motivated you'd be better off just mining (again, in theory) You could have a "blockchain" without mining, but it wouldn't provide the same properties Bitcoin does, and solutions that give you similar properties to such a system have been around for a long time, and are probably faster and more efficient. I think banks are now interested in the "blockchain" because of some combination of hype, FOMO, and fundamentally misunderstanding Bitcoin/blockchain.
- detaro 11y ago
  Yes, but there are tons of blockchains that have mining and the same incentive structure, but you wouldn't call them "Bitcoin"? from "simple variations" (Litecoin) to projects building additional features like Ethereum. Bitcoin is only one application using such a blockchain.
  - tlrobinson 11y ago
    The implication when finance people talk about "the blockchain" is they want the properties (or at least the hype) of Bitcoin's blockchain without Bitcoin (or any other alt-coin) the currency.
    - paavokoya 11y ago
      >they want the properties (or at least the hype) of Bitcoin's blockchain without Bitcoin (or any other alt-coin) the currency. A blockchain without a currency or decentralized network is called a database. All banks currently use one already. There is no reason for any of this. Think of it like intranet (blockchain) vs. internet (bitcoin). Sadly, many do not realize this.