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It also ignores the question of what economic growth is. Infinite economic growth does not mean infinite potatoes. Infinite economic growth means infinite incre

by tormeh 11y ago

It also ignores the question of what economic growth is. Infinite economic growth does not mean infinite potatoes. Infinite economic growth means infinite increase in perceived worth of stuff we make. That's eminently doable. I mean, growth has shifted to services long ago. We can't make infinite potatoes, but that's not required for infinite growth.

Retric 11y ago
If potatoes have value, the total economy is expressible in in some number of potatoes. Unbound growth requires the relative value of potatoes to always decrease. However, the same must be said for every other physical good including gold and land etc. Thus, economic growth is only infinite when all physical goods have zero value. That might happen, but it seems really unlikely.
- tormeh 11y ago
  As inflation-adjusted GDP approaches infinity the value of potatoes must approach zero, yes. Of course, were demand for potatoes to suddenly increase, the value of potatoes would too, so it does not imply any ability to buy an earth-sized ball of potatoes for a dollar in the near future. But the price of potatoes, at typical demand, must approach zero, yes. The value of potatoes have been going towards zero for a long time, anyway. It's not hard to envisage a future with self-maintaining automated farming and fusion energy where potatoes are basically free.
  - Retric 11y ago
    Self maintained automated farms are not going to be handing out beach front houses any time soon. Further, an economy where everyone get's their own complete copy of earth and can teleport anywhere is still finite.
tpeo 11y ago
I see how the "perceived worth" if GDP is designed to be a measure of real economic variables e.g. tons of steel. Growth that isn't growth which isn't attributable to increases in quantity produced is just inflation as measured by the GDP deflator.
- tormeh 11y ago
  You measure steel in tons of a given quality. GDP is not for measuring manufacturing output. Services do add to GDP despite needing no new resources per se.

by tormeh 11y ago

Retric 11y ago

If potatoes have value, the total economy is expressible in in some number of potatoes. Unbound growth requires the relative value of potatoes to always decrease. However, the same must be said for every other physical good including gold and land etc. Thus, economic growth is only infinite when all physical goods have zero value. That might happen, but it seems really unlikely.

tormeh 11y ago
As inflation-adjusted GDP approaches infinity the value of potatoes must approach zero, yes. Of course, were demand for potatoes to suddenly increase, the value of potatoes would too, so it does not imply any ability to buy an earth-sized ball of potatoes for a dollar in the near future. But the price of potatoes, at typical demand, must approach zero, yes. The value of potatoes have been going towards zero for a long time, anyway. It's not hard to envisage a future with self-maintaining automated farming and fusion energy where potatoes are basically free.
- Retric 11y ago
  Self maintained automated farms are not going to be handing out beach front houses any time soon. Further, an economy where everyone get's their own complete copy of earth and can teleport anywhere is still finite.

tpeo 11y ago

I see how the "perceived worth" if GDP is designed to be a measure of real economic variables e.g. tons of steel. Growth that isn't growth which isn't attributable to increases in quantity produced is just inflation as measured by the GDP deflator.

tormeh 11y ago
You measure steel in tons of a given quality. GDP is not for measuring manufacturing output. Services do add to GDP despite needing no new resources per se.