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There is no You in the brain. That You is an illusion produced by the conditioned mind. Animals doesn't have any You. 99.9% of activities which brain controls

There is no You in the brain. That You is an illusion produced by the conditioned mind. Animals doesn't have any You. 99.9% of activities which brain controls are "non-verbal", which means have nothing to do with the prefrontal cortex, Wernicke's areas, etc. To put it simply, almost everything is non-verbal (doesn't require your self). We grossly overemphasize importance of that You we are obsessed with.

marklgr 11y ago
It depends on how you define "you". If it's the conscious self, then it does exist, even though it's anywhere near in control of as much as it believes. It's more like it's sometimes notified of what happens in the hood, and it got some veto on that.
- esMazer 11y ago
  there's no separation, you and your brain are not 2 different things. The interface (what most people call "you") is that, just the interface. The real "you" is everything..
  - cmcnally 11y ago
    There has to be some degree of separation at some point though. For all I know, there could be more than one "me" experiencing life as processed by my brain at any given time, but the self cannot possible be the complete interface as a whole. If it were so, then the self could not continue to exist if a portion of the interface were removed, but it can, regardless of it being a less than optimal condition.
    - monort 11y ago
      There is seems to be indeed two of you as evidenced by split brain patients: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain
- wnmurphy 11y ago
  It exists conceptually, as a representational model only. It uses symbolic systems of thought and language to perpetuate the illusion of a separate self. "All boundaries are merely useful fictions." -Buckminster Fuller
yesco 11y ago
Daniel Dennett delves into an idea similar to this in his essays 'Where Am I?' and 'Self as a Center of Gravity'. I think he explains it a bit better than the parent comment which I found to be a bit too forceful. That can't be helped though, its not something you can sum up in a couple sentences. Here the links to them for those who are interested: ('Where Am I?') http://www.newbanner.com/SecHumSCM/WhereAmI.html http://www.newbanner.com/SecHumSCM/WhereAmI.html ('Self as a Center of Gravity') http://cogprints.org/266/1/selfctr.htm http://cogprints.org/266/1/selfctr.htm The first one is a (fictional) story many people here might be interested in so I highly recommend it. If you are still interested read the second which delves deeper into personal identity but without the story.
umaguma 11y ago
"99.9% of activities which brain controls..." s/activities/known &/
estefan 11y ago
The User Illusion by Norretranders discusses this in depth. He relays an estimate that our conscious bandwidth is roughly one millionth of the total bandwidth of our subconscious mind. Incredible! It's literally one of the most fascinating books I've ever read that completely changed my view on a lot of things. I wish there were an updated version based on more recent research.
- dominotw 11y ago
  This Has been on human mind for thousands of years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_(Hinduism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_(Hinduism)
  - estefan 11y ago
    Call me new fashioned, but I want something backed up by science and research rather than, well, not...
- codeulike 11y ago
  Analysis of the claims about the bandwidth of consciousness here: http://memebake.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/straw-dogs-and-bandwidth-of.html http://memebake.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/straw-dogs-and-bandwi...
  - estefan 11y ago
    Interesting, thanks for posting!
knughit 11y ago
If You is an illusion, who is perceiving it?
- gshubert17 11y ago
  Perhaps part of our minds is a "module" or "function" that helps us infer what is in the minds of others based on their behaviors. No doubt this would be helpful in social animals. This "module" infers what is in our mind based on our feelings and behaviors. Then we ascribe agency to that "mind", give it a name, and call it "I".
_nedR 11y ago
"Animals doesn't have any You." How can you possibly know that.
- snowwrestler 11y ago
  Agreed. I think much of the western received wisdom on animal cognition actually comes from religious attitudes of the unique specialness of man and his God-given dominion over the birds and beasts. In general I think we are still adjusting to what science tells us about who "we" are. For example, we know we're animals. As animals, we experience a concept of "self." So why would we assume that no other animals experience a concept of self? We know that the mind arises from the brain. So why would we make a distinction between our concept of self and the "other" parts of the brain? The title of the above article is essentially clickbait, in my opinion. There is no scientific basis for distinguishing between the brain and the self.
- dschiptsov 11y ago
  It seems like there is a fundamental difference between awareness of a fit back signals from various systems (fear, hunger, cold, pain, etc.) and awareness of the self as an separate entity. Animals obviously have fit back awareness but probably does not have the concept of the self, like toddlers and young children. Self comes with language acquisition, which rewires the brain. That's why almost no one remember their baby days, it seems. Before that language conditioning you are a perfect animal.)
  - PavlovsCat 11y ago
    "Probably"? You guessed wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness#Animals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness#Animals
  - _nedR 11y ago
    Oh ok. Looking up what you told me i learnt that what I thought was 1 concept called conciousness, could be defined as 2 separate but related concepts - Qualia and self-awareness. Looking up the wiki article, it seems most animals don't pass the mirror test of self-awareness although few have (such as primates, dolphins, magpies).The mirror-test has been criticized by some as human-centric approach which could give false negatives meaning possibly more animals could be self-aware. Your connecting of awareness and language is interesting. Do you have any sources to look at (articles, books ,etc)? Quite interesting field really. Thanks.

marklgr 11y ago

It depends on how you define "you". If it's the conscious self, then it does exist, even though it's anywhere near in control of as much as it believes. It's more like it's sometimes notified of what happens in the hood, and it got some veto on that.

esMazer 11y ago
there's no separation, you and your brain are not 2 different things. The interface (what most people call "you") is that, just the interface. The real "you" is everything..
- cmcnally 11y ago
  There has to be some degree of separation at some point though. For all I know, there could be more than one "me" experiencing life as processed by my brain at any given time, but the self cannot possible be the complete interface as a whole. If it were so, then the self could not continue to exist if a portion of the interface were removed, but it can, regardless of it being a less than optimal condition.
  - monort 11y ago
    There is seems to be indeed two of you as evidenced by split brain patients: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain
wnmurphy 11y ago
It exists conceptually, as a representational model only. It uses symbolic systems of thought and language to perpetuate the illusion of a separate self. "All boundaries are merely useful fictions." -Buckminster Fuller

yesco 11y ago

Daniel Dennett delves into an idea similar to this in his essays 'Where Am I?' and 'Self as a Center of Gravity'. I think he explains it a bit better than the parent comment which I found to be a bit too forceful. That can't be helped though, its not something you can sum up in a couple sentences. Here the links to them for those who are interested: ('Where Am I?') http://www.newbanner.com/SecHumSCM/WhereAmI.html http://www.newbanner.com/SecHumSCM/WhereAmI.html ('Self as a Center of Gravity') http://cogprints.org/266/1/selfctr.htm http://cogprints.org/266/1/selfctr.htm The first one is a (fictional) story many people here might be interested in so I highly recommend it. If you are still interested read the second which delves deeper into personal identity but without the story.

umaguma 11y ago

"99.9% of activities which brain controls..." s/activities/known &/

estefan 11y ago

The User Illusion by Norretranders discusses this in depth. He relays an estimate that our conscious bandwidth is roughly one millionth of the total bandwidth of our subconscious mind. Incredible! It's literally one of the most fascinating books I've ever read that completely changed my view on a lot of things. I wish there were an updated version based on more recent research.

dominotw 11y ago
This Has been on human mind for thousands of years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_(Hinduism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_(Hinduism)
- estefan 11y ago
  Call me new fashioned, but I want something backed up by science and research rather than, well, not...
codeulike 11y ago
Analysis of the claims about the bandwidth of consciousness here: http://memebake.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/straw-dogs-and-bandwidth-of.html http://memebake.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/straw-dogs-and-bandwi...
- estefan 11y ago
  Interesting, thanks for posting!

knughit 11y ago

If You is an illusion, who is perceiving it?

gshubert17 11y ago
Perhaps part of our minds is a "module" or "function" that helps us infer what is in the minds of others based on their behaviors. No doubt this would be helpful in social animals. This "module" infers what is in our mind based on our feelings and behaviors. Then we ascribe agency to that "mind", give it a name, and call it "I".

_nedR 11y ago

"Animals doesn't have any You." How can you possibly know that.

snowwrestler 11y ago
Agreed. I think much of the western received wisdom on animal cognition actually comes from religious attitudes of the unique specialness of man and his God-given dominion over the birds and beasts. In general I think we are still adjusting to what science tells us about who "we" are. For example, we know we're animals. As animals, we experience a concept of "self." So why would we assume that no other animals experience a concept of self? We know that the mind arises from the brain. So why would we make a distinction between our concept of self and the "other" parts of the brain? The title of the above article is essentially clickbait, in my opinion. There is no scientific basis for distinguishing between the brain and the self.
dschiptsov 11y ago
It seems like there is a fundamental difference between awareness of a fit back signals from various systems (fear, hunger, cold, pain, etc.) and awareness of the self as an separate entity. Animals obviously have fit back awareness but probably does not have the concept of the self, like toddlers and young children. Self comes with language acquisition, which rewires the brain. That's why almost no one remember their baby days, it seems. Before that language conditioning you are a perfect animal.)
- PavlovsCat 11y ago
  "Probably"? You guessed wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness#Animals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness#Animals
- _nedR 11y ago
  Oh ok. Looking up what you told me i learnt that what I thought was 1 concept called conciousness, could be defined as 2 separate but related concepts - Qualia and self-awareness. Looking up the wiki article, it seems most animals don't pass the mirror test of self-awareness although few have (such as primates, dolphins, magpies).The mirror-test has been criticized by some as human-centric approach which could give false negatives meaning possibly more animals could be self-aware. Your connecting of awareness and language is interesting. Do you have any sources to look at (articles, books ,etc)? Quite interesting field really. Thanks.