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Remember when that guy was offering to buy every classroom free TVs in exchange for the school's commitment to have the kids watch a certain amount of programmi

Remember when that guy was offering to buy every classroom free TVs in exchange for the school's commitment to have the kids watch a certain amount of programming a day? The programming included ads. This seems the same. Having the kids load linux onto laptops, yeah... I could understand the value in that. Having them work with Raspberry Pi's, I could see the merit in that. Program robots? Definitely. But this debacle of Apple products for kids has been terrible. I do believe the schools and city councils are well meaning. Yes, these expenditures are so huge the city councils have to often get involved. But introducing kids to computing via the walled gardens of Apple are a disservice to them, and a step back, in my opinion. Apple devices are imminently non-configurable... they are designed to walk you through the computing experience, training you to seek the help of 'geniuses' as opposed to becoming your own genius. The cost of these programs is astounding. Districts could be loading linux onto machines bought for relatively nothing... those linux skills would be immediately applicable to Raspberry Pis and to robots. Are schools afraid of really educating their students, as opposed to making them dependents of Apple's consumer culture?

thearn4 11y ago
> Are schools afraid of really educating their students, as opposed to making them dependents of Apple's consumer culture? I think a key component to the problem here is the very clear gap between computing enthusiasts/application developer and your typical K-12 teacher. Which is really not meant to be a knock on our teachers, but I don't think your typical school has the people with the right skill sets to teach "true" computing. They don't realistically have any choice but to rely on the watered-down end user version experienced through the walled-garden of one vendor or another. Which makes most "technology in the classroom" initiatives to me look more like solutions in search of a problem (ie. not a very effective use of district resources).
creshal 11y ago
> Apple devices are imminently non-configurable... they are designed to walk you through the computing experience Which probably seems tempting for budget-strapped schools which can't afford replacing equipment every year nor have the staff to build something themselves around RasPis.
hellbanner 11y ago
Right. "Program or Be Programmed" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgicuytCkoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgicuytCkoY
- matt-attack 11y ago
  Great perspective. Thanks for posting.
coldpie 11y ago
The thing is, these iPads aren't meant to teach about computing. They're tools for teaching other subjects, like math or geography or English or whatever. Just like a geography textbook is a bad way to learn about papermaking, so is an educational iPad a bad way to learn about computing. I still think they're awful for other reasons, but their lack of hackability is a feature, not a bug.
greyman 11y ago
Linux, Raspberry Pi and robots are very specialized topics... we are talking about general education of 8 years old kids.
- dublinben 11y ago
  General education of 8 year olds does not require expensive computing devices.
  - greyman 11y ago
    I agree. They could just use books in all classes like before, and possibly netbooks in an IT class (if they have one). It seems to me that the article came to the similar conclusion.
Cthulhu_ 11y ago
You could argue the same about Windows / Office (required in a lot of schools), student discounts for software packages (notably Photoshop and other high-priced pieces of software), even Linux. There is IMO no such thing as a neutral choice of software, although free software doesn't have commercial goals so it gets more kudos from me. Still, you can't go "I only know vim" when your job is to work with Word / Excel (lots of jobs there).
desireco42 11y ago
As you said, schools are afraid of teaching kids real skills. I agree pretty much with everything you said the way you said it :).
digi_owl 11y ago
I seem to recall a blogged anecdote from the height of the Apple vs Samsung lawsuit. The blogger had overheard a couple reading about it in a newspaper, and they consistently called the Samsung tablet the "Samsung iPad". When all the media is yakking about is iPads, all the world knows exist are iPads...

thearn4 11y ago

> Are schools afraid of really educating their students, as opposed to making them dependents of Apple's consumer culture? I think a key component to the problem here is the very clear gap between computing enthusiasts/application developer and your typical K-12 teacher. Which is really not meant to be a knock on our teachers, but I don't think your typical school has the people with the right skill sets to teach "true" computing. They don't realistically have any choice but to rely on the watered-down end user version experienced through the walled-garden of one vendor or another. Which makes most "technology in the classroom" initiatives to me look more like solutions in search of a problem (ie. not a very effective use of district resources).

creshal 11y ago

> Apple devices are imminently non-configurable... they are designed to walk you through the computing experience Which probably seems tempting for budget-strapped schools which can't afford replacing equipment every year nor have the staff to build something themselves around RasPis.

hellbanner 11y ago

Right. "Program or Be Programmed" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgicuytCkoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgicuytCkoY

matt-attack 11y ago
Great perspective. Thanks for posting.

coldpie 11y ago

The thing is, these iPads aren't meant to teach about computing. They're tools for teaching other subjects, like math or geography or English or whatever. Just like a geography textbook is a bad way to learn about papermaking, so is an educational iPad a bad way to learn about computing. I still think they're awful for other reasons, but their lack of hackability is a feature, not a bug.

greyman 11y ago

Linux, Raspberry Pi and robots are very specialized topics... we are talking about general education of 8 years old kids.

dublinben 11y ago
General education of 8 year olds does not require expensive computing devices.
- greyman 11y ago
  I agree. They could just use books in all classes like before, and possibly netbooks in an IT class (if they have one). It seems to me that the article came to the similar conclusion.

Cthulhu_ 11y ago

You could argue the same about Windows / Office (required in a lot of schools), student discounts for software packages (notably Photoshop and other high-priced pieces of software), even Linux. There is IMO no such thing as a neutral choice of software, although free software doesn't have commercial goals so it gets more kudos from me. Still, you can't go "I only know vim" when your job is to work with Word / Excel (lots of jobs there).

desireco42 11y ago

As you said, schools are afraid of teaching kids real skills. I agree pretty much with everything you said the way you said it :).

digi_owl 11y ago

I seem to recall a blogged anecdote from the height of the Apple vs Samsung lawsuit. The blogger had overheard a couple reading about it in a newspaper, and they consistently called the Samsung tablet the "Samsung iPad". When all the media is yakking about is iPads, all the world knows exist are iPads...