10 ms·

Beijing smog ‘red alert’ issued

64 points by kevindeasis 11y ago

restalis 11y ago
First time I read it I interpreted it as a pun! (What color may an alert in a red country be?!) On a more serious note, I'm sorry to know that there are people forced to live day by day in a high pollution environment though. I hope that the period of health tribute being paid in the name of industrial development won't last too long!
- rahimnathwani 11y ago
  "I'm sorry to know that there are people forced to live day by day in a high pollution environment though." It's funny, for > 99.9% in Beijing, they have no reasonable way to escape, due to family ties, personal financial disruption from having to leave a job/career, etc. But there are many (not only foreigners) who could much more easily uproot and move to another city or another country. The thing is, you go on hoping it's going to get better over time, and pushing the decision further out, as 'another few months' of this pollution isn't going to make a serious health difference.
  - rdlecler1 11y ago
    What I don't understand is that since Beijing is also the center of government, how is it that they are not showing more self interest and fix the situation. It's really a paradox.
    - tacon 11y ago
      The Chinese elite are showing plenty of self-interest. They have an entire infrastructure of purified air to breathe: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/05/world/asia/the-privileges-of-chinas-elite-include-purified-air.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/05/world/asia/the-privileges-...
      - harryjo 11y ago
        That's an amazing display of hypocrisy by government leaders who usually keep right control over PR. I'd be unsurprised yet impressed to learn that the company that makes air purifiers for the ruling class, and then publicly advertises that, was a CIA operation to foment a rebellion against the tyrannical government.
        im2w1l 11y ago
        I see it as completely unsurprising, and would be equally unsurprised to hear of this in a capitalist country. Is organic non-growth-hormone corn-syrup-free food that is too expensive for the poor a socialist plot?
    - rgovind 11y ago
      If China is anything like India, corrupt elite are interested in things like money and power rather than quality of life. long term health, etc. Most people want to live in an urban environment inspite of traffic problems. Its just the mindset. Pollution doesn't kill you overnight so they don;t really care.
- andrezsanchez 11y ago
  I'm studying abroad in Beijing right now, and my throat began to hurt even at lower levels of PM2.5 simply because I wasn't wearing a mask. I'm very surprised at the number of people who don't wear a mask; they either don't value their health or don't know how bad the air is because they've been accustomed to it.
  - im2w1l 11y ago
    How much does your mask help?
    - andrezsanchez 11y ago
      The package says it blocks >=90%, which is still horrible for my health, but thankfully I'm leaving in less than 2 months. It certainly feels better though.
  - kruczek 11y ago
    Out of curiosity - what are typical levels of PM2.5 over there?
    - tellarin 11y ago
      130 - 170 AQI is kind of typical. With <50 levels sprinkled throughout the year. A couple dozen days a year it gets really bad, worse than this current streak.
    - andrezsanchez 11y ago
      I didn't even look at the levels when I came in September because everything looked fine, but lately it's varied a lot, between 100-350 the past few weeks.
purpled_haze 11y ago
Beijing Air Pollution Real-time Air Quality Index (AQI) for those interested: http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/ http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/
- trendroid 11y ago
  Thanks. Not surprising but it seems like New Delhi is severely fucked http://aqicn.org/city/delhi/anand-vihar/ http://aqicn.org/city/delhi/anand-vihar/
  - bbgm 11y ago
    It's insanely bad. I was there just recently and the sun (if visible) is always orange in color, with half mile visibility or less on an average day when AQI was about 360.
  - gamekathu 11y ago
    its crazy Anand Vihar Delhi is clocking more score than Beijing! maybe because of the temperature Beijing's condition is worse
    - tellarin 11y ago
      I live in Beijing and the pollution here is pretty bad at many points during the year (the current streak is not even close to the worse I've seen here). But I'm always amazed by how much emphasis is placed on China in this regard. I try to follow AQI indexes for comparison and India has multiple cities trending over China most of the time. However, news pieces about it are kind of rare...
ekianjo 11y ago
Poisonous particles. Thats a new level of writing. Did Greenpeace commission this article?
- mikeyouse 11y ago
  PM2.5 smog is literally poisonous.. From Wiki[1]: The smaller PM2.5 were particularly deadly, with a 36% increase in lung cancer per 10 μg/m3 as it can penetrate deeper into the lungs And... An increase in estimated annual exposure to PM 2.5 of just 5 µg/m3 was linked with a 13% increased risk of heart attacks. So 36% increase in lung cancer per 10μg/m3 and a 13% increase in heart attacks from 5μg/m3. The level in Beijing right now is 250μg/m3. It maxed at over 360μg/m3 in the past 48 hours.[2] People are literally being killed by Beijing's air quality as we speak, should we temper our language to not appear biased? [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particulates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particulates [2] - http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/us-embassy/ http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/us-embassy/
  - ekianjo 11y ago
    Come on, the article referred "you could get sick just by standing in the street" - if that's not hyperbole, I don't know what that is. > with a 36% increase in lung cancer per 10 μg/m3 as it can penetrate deeper into the lungs Observational study. That says everything, it does not account for all variables that have to be taken in account and therefore the effect cannot be isolated. > An increase in estimated annual exposure to PM 2.5 of just 5 µg/m3 was linked with a 13% increased risk of heart attacks. Annual exposure. Not standing in the streets for 5 minutes like the article suggests. Yes, we should temper our language and use Good Science and not Sensationalism.
    - dengnan 11y ago
      Have you ever been there? If you want to talk about science, then define "sick" fisrt. For most people, frequently coughing would be considered as "sick". Note that we are not discussing disease, we are talking about sickness, which I think is a less rigorous word sometimes referring to "not feeling good". I was born in Beijing and have been living there for more than two decades. And yes, I feel bad when I was exposed under that environment: I can hardly breathe, I coughed a lot and felt itchy in every inch of my skin. If you think that is not "getting sick", then well, welcome to Beijing.
agorabinary 11y ago
What proportion of Chinese energy production is coal-based? Is there any realistic scenario in which China soon adopts more 21st century alternatives?
- mikeyouse 11y ago
  They're in the process of doubling the number of nuclear reactors under operation but they take a long time to come online and China's electricity demand keeps increasing so it'll probably be a wash. http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/current-and-future-generation/plans-for-new-reactors-worldwide/ http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/current-and-future-generat...
  - LoSboccacc 11y ago
    Also I remember a report on projected grow they made stating the uranium production capacity would not be able to sustain their growth and the need to invest in new reactor design limiting the construction of current gen reactors to avoid outstripping the production chain.
    - grandinj 11y ago
      There is no real bottleneck in uranium production. All we need to do is to double the price and various extra production will come online. And the price of uranium means almost nothing in he context of running a power plant.
- ant6n 11y ago
  I wonder whether coal plants could be quickly converted to oil plants. Oil is cheap right now, and probably less bad wrt to particle pollution.
ak217 11y ago
For an introduction to the problem, and to anyone who hasn't lived in a severely air polluted city, I highly recommend the documentary Under the Dome, released earlier this year and later banned in China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6X2uwlQGQM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6X2uwlQGQM
harryjo 11y ago
I can't decide if the state of the state of China is a cautionary tale for USA, or proof that USA is doing somethig right.
- sunwooz 11y ago
  The state of China is what happened to the US and UK when they were going through their industrial revolution.
  - tellarin 11y ago
    Yes, but in a somewhat smaller scale. Air quality here is just one of the facets of the pollution issue.
beefman 11y ago
Greetings from Beijing. I don't find the air so objectionable, and neither do my wife and our two boys (we arrived Saturday). Leipzig 1986 was much worse.
- tellarin 11y ago
  First of all, welcome to the Jing! Not sure what Leipzig was like in 86, but if you don't find it objectionable here this week, man, you have iron lungs and a high tolerance for smoke-smelling dusty stuff. :) On a serious note, the news cycle is over hyping it. But there are some pretty bad days. And this week isn't even close to the worst it has been in Beijing a couple years ago. PS: 4th year here.
  - beefman 11y ago
    The cold is much more offputting to us (coming from California here)! But having a great time so far. Leipzig back then was unreal. I did a quick search for historical data on SO2 and particulate concentrations but I couldn't find anything. Not only are our environmental standards higher today, so are our expectations about the existence of data! OK, the air here is by no means good, and it is tragic to mess up something so fundamental to happiness. But things are improving and I bet the air will too.
given 11y ago
This website seems to omit or twist facts to make their articles as sensationalist as possible: > Blanketed in acrid smog, Beijing is waking up to climate change Ok, so if Beijing is having smog because they pollute the air this is now climate change? Or just the next article linked on that page again: > The smog is so bad in Beijing that someone made a brick out of it Actually he used clay for most of the brick, he only collected 100 grams of "smog" during 100 days (4 hours of vacuuming each day) (see http://qz.com/562319/a-chinese-artist-vacuumed-up-beijings-smog-for-100-days-and-made-a-brick-from-what-he-collected/ http://qz.com/562319/a-chinese-artist-vacuumed-up-beijings-s...) I'm not saying they don't have a problem with smog but one thing I know is that this kind of journalism is not helping anyone. It is just like everywhere: we tend to get emotional about stuff which doesn't help us to find a solution. It just makes people dislike each other.
- zurn 11y ago
  "Blanketed in acrid smog, Beijing is waking up to climate change" outside the article body is a link and headline to another article. In headlines this pattern is used to establish setting. So the reporting does not suggest or imply that smog is climate change.

64 points by kevindeasis 11y ago

First time I read it I interpreted it as a pun! (What color may an alert in a red country be?!) On a more serious note, I'm sorry to know that there are people forced to live day by day in a high pollution environment though. I hope that the period of health tribute being paid in the name of industrial development won't last too long!

rahimnathwani 11y ago
"I'm sorry to know that there are people forced to live day by day in a high pollution environment though." It's funny, for > 99.9% in Beijing, they have no reasonable way to escape, due to family ties, personal financial disruption from having to leave a job/career, etc. But there are many (not only foreigners) who could much more easily uproot and move to another city or another country. The thing is, you go on hoping it's going to get better over time, and pushing the decision further out, as 'another few months' of this pollution isn't going to make a serious health difference.
- rdlecler1 11y ago
  What I don't understand is that since Beijing is also the center of government, how is it that they are not showing more self interest and fix the situation. It's really a paradox.
  - tacon 11y ago
    The Chinese elite are showing plenty of self-interest. They have an entire infrastructure of purified air to breathe: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/05/world/asia/the-privileges-of-chinas-elite-include-purified-air.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/05/world/asia/the-privileges-...
    - harryjo 11y ago
      That's an amazing display of hypocrisy by government leaders who usually keep right control over PR. I'd be unsurprised yet impressed to learn that the company that makes air purifiers for the ruling class, and then publicly advertises that, was a CIA operation to foment a rebellion against the tyrannical government.
      - im2w1l 11y ago
        I see it as completely unsurprising, and would be equally unsurprised to hear of this in a capitalist country. Is organic non-growth-hormone corn-syrup-free food that is too expensive for the poor a socialist plot?
  - rgovind 11y ago
    If China is anything like India, corrupt elite are interested in things like money and power rather than quality of life. long term health, etc. Most people want to live in an urban environment inspite of traffic problems. Its just the mindset. Pollution doesn't kill you overnight so they don;t really care.
andrezsanchez 11y ago
I'm studying abroad in Beijing right now, and my throat began to hurt even at lower levels of PM2.5 simply because I wasn't wearing a mask. I'm very surprised at the number of people who don't wear a mask; they either don't value their health or don't know how bad the air is because they've been accustomed to it.
- im2w1l 11y ago
  How much does your mask help?
  - andrezsanchez 11y ago
    The package says it blocks >=90%, which is still horrible for my health, but thankfully I'm leaving in less than 2 months. It certainly feels better though.
- kruczek 11y ago
  Out of curiosity - what are typical levels of PM2.5 over there?
  - tellarin 11y ago
    130 - 170 AQI is kind of typical. With <50 levels sprinkled throughout the year. A couple dozen days a year it gets really bad, worse than this current streak.
  - andrezsanchez 11y ago
    I didn't even look at the levels when I came in September because everything looked fine, but lately it's varied a lot, between 100-350 the past few weeks.

purpled_haze 11y ago

Beijing Air Pollution Real-time Air Quality Index (AQI) for those interested: http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/ http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/

trendroid 11y ago
Thanks. Not surprising but it seems like New Delhi is severely fucked http://aqicn.org/city/delhi/anand-vihar/ http://aqicn.org/city/delhi/anand-vihar/
- bbgm 11y ago
  It's insanely bad. I was there just recently and the sun (if visible) is always orange in color, with half mile visibility or less on an average day when AQI was about 360.
- gamekathu 11y ago
  its crazy Anand Vihar Delhi is clocking more score than Beijing! maybe because of the temperature Beijing's condition is worse
  - tellarin 11y ago
    I live in Beijing and the pollution here is pretty bad at many points during the year (the current streak is not even close to the worse I've seen here). But I'm always amazed by how much emphasis is placed on China in this regard. I try to follow AQI indexes for comparison and India has multiple cities trending over China most of the time. However, news pieces about it are kind of rare...

ekianjo 11y ago

Poisonous particles. Thats a new level of writing. Did Greenpeace commission this article?

mikeyouse 11y ago
PM2.5 smog is literally poisonous.. From Wiki[1]: The smaller PM2.5 were particularly deadly, with a 36% increase in lung cancer per 10 μg/m3 as it can penetrate deeper into the lungs And... An increase in estimated annual exposure to PM 2.5 of just 5 µg/m3 was linked with a 13% increased risk of heart attacks. So 36% increase in lung cancer per 10μg/m3 and a 13% increase in heart attacks from 5μg/m3. The level in Beijing right now is 250μg/m3. It maxed at over 360μg/m3 in the past 48 hours.[2] People are literally being killed by Beijing's air quality as we speak, should we temper our language to not appear biased? [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particulates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particulates [2] - http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/us-embassy/ http://aqicn.org/city/beijing/us-embassy/
- ekianjo 11y ago
  Come on, the article referred "you could get sick just by standing in the street" - if that's not hyperbole, I don't know what that is. > with a 36% increase in lung cancer per 10 μg/m3 as it can penetrate deeper into the lungs Observational study. That says everything, it does not account for all variables that have to be taken in account and therefore the effect cannot be isolated. > An increase in estimated annual exposure to PM 2.5 of just 5 µg/m3 was linked with a 13% increased risk of heart attacks. Annual exposure. Not standing in the streets for 5 minutes like the article suggests. Yes, we should temper our language and use Good Science and not Sensationalism.
  - dengnan 11y ago
    Have you ever been there? If you want to talk about science, then define "sick" fisrt. For most people, frequently coughing would be considered as "sick". Note that we are not discussing disease, we are talking about sickness, which I think is a less rigorous word sometimes referring to "not feeling good". I was born in Beijing and have been living there for more than two decades. And yes, I feel bad when I was exposed under that environment: I can hardly breathe, I coughed a lot and felt itchy in every inch of my skin. If you think that is not "getting sick", then well, welcome to Beijing.

agorabinary 11y ago

What proportion of Chinese energy production is coal-based? Is there any realistic scenario in which China soon adopts more 21st century alternatives?

mikeyouse 11y ago
They're in the process of doubling the number of nuclear reactors under operation but they take a long time to come online and China's electricity demand keeps increasing so it'll probably be a wash. http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/current-and-future-generation/plans-for-new-reactors-worldwide/ http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/current-and-future-generat...
- LoSboccacc 11y ago
  Also I remember a report on projected grow they made stating the uranium production capacity would not be able to sustain their growth and the need to invest in new reactor design limiting the construction of current gen reactors to avoid outstripping the production chain.
  - grandinj 11y ago
    There is no real bottleneck in uranium production. All we need to do is to double the price and various extra production will come online. And the price of uranium means almost nothing in he context of running a power plant.
ant6n 11y ago
I wonder whether coal plants could be quickly converted to oil plants. Oil is cheap right now, and probably less bad wrt to particle pollution.

ak217 11y ago

For an introduction to the problem, and to anyone who hasn't lived in a severely air polluted city, I highly recommend the documentary Under the Dome, released earlier this year and later banned in China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6X2uwlQGQM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6X2uwlQGQM

harryjo 11y ago

I can't decide if the state of the state of China is a cautionary tale for USA, or proof that USA is doing somethig right.

sunwooz 11y ago
The state of China is what happened to the US and UK when they were going through their industrial revolution.
- tellarin 11y ago
  Yes, but in a somewhat smaller scale. Air quality here is just one of the facets of the pollution issue.

beefman 11y ago

Greetings from Beijing. I don't find the air so objectionable, and neither do my wife and our two boys (we arrived Saturday). Leipzig 1986 was much worse.

tellarin 11y ago
First of all, welcome to the Jing! Not sure what Leipzig was like in 86, but if you don't find it objectionable here this week, man, you have iron lungs and a high tolerance for smoke-smelling dusty stuff. :) On a serious note, the news cycle is over hyping it. But there are some pretty bad days. And this week isn't even close to the worst it has been in Beijing a couple years ago. PS: 4th year here.
- beefman 11y ago
  The cold is much more offputting to us (coming from California here)! But having a great time so far. Leipzig back then was unreal. I did a quick search for historical data on SO2 and particulate concentrations but I couldn't find anything. Not only are our environmental standards higher today, so are our expectations about the existence of data! OK, the air here is by no means good, and it is tragic to mess up something so fundamental to happiness. But things are improving and I bet the air will too.

given 11y ago

This website seems to omit or twist facts to make their articles as sensationalist as possible: > Blanketed in acrid smog, Beijing is waking up to climate change Ok, so if Beijing is having smog because they pollute the air this is now climate change? Or just the next article linked on that page again: > The smog is so bad in Beijing that someone made a brick out of it Actually he used clay for most of the brick, he only collected 100 grams of "smog" during 100 days (4 hours of vacuuming each day) (see http://qz.com/562319/a-chinese-artist-vacuumed-up-beijings-smog-for-100-days-and-made-a-brick-from-what-he-collected/ http://qz.com/562319/a-chinese-artist-vacuumed-up-beijings-s...) I'm not saying they don't have a problem with smog but one thing I know is that this kind of journalism is not helping anyone. It is just like everywhere: we tend to get emotional about stuff which doesn't help us to find a solution. It just makes people dislike each other.

zurn 11y ago
"Blanketed in acrid smog, Beijing is waking up to climate change" outside the article body is a link and headline to another article. In headlines this pattern is used to establish setting. So the reporting does not suggest or imply that smog is climate change.