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German intelligence: Saudi Arabia is playing a destabilizing role in the M.East
- rbanffy 11y agoWe could have just told them. edit: I undertand it's a big step to see a government agency make an official announcement that will have a lot of diplomatic fallout. The big news is that the BND said it, not that someone was surprised by what they said. Now, at least, se can all talk about the elephant in the room.
- RobertoG 11y agoThat was my first though too. After read the article, it seems that the key word, that it's not in the title, is: "increasing".
- gpvos 11y agoIt's a big step (and fraught with diplomatic problems) that a government agency is saying this openly. Have any other (major, Western) governments or their agencies done so already?
- orbifold 11y agoIt was mentioned by one of the candidates in the republican presidential debate for example (I forgot who), so it definitely is part of the mainstream discussion.
- johnm1019 11y agoIf a public government figure comes out and makes a public statement like that - there will be immediate follow-up for proof/concrete evidence. When the national intelligence agency "independently" makes such a claim, it allows the leadership to defer proof. Additionally, it provides a subtle message of credibility and hints that "they" know something "we" don't.
- gadders 11y agoTrue. Iran has been doing this for years too.
- eternalban 11y agoIran's been doing what, precisely?
- gpvos 11y agoDestabilizing. But IMHO they're much less of a problem, as they don't act as randomly as Saudi Arabia.
- ZenoArrow 11y agoHow are Iran destabilizing that region?
- gadders 11y agoChiefly: - Exporting IEDs that were used against coalition troops in Iraq - Supporting Hamas and Hezbollah Plus all the other items on this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terro...
- ZenoArrow 11y agoOkay, now compare their actions in the Middle East to those of the US, Saudi Arabia and Israel. It's also worth pointing out that Iran has a very weak military compared to its neighbours: http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-conventional-military-power-overrated-security-study-says-409736 http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-conventional-military-...
- gadders 11y agoIt's not competition. Saying one is doing doesn't mean others aren't as well.
- siculars 11y agoI have a question for all the folks out there who preach the "give them all jobs" line to ending terrorism: What happens when oil has no value cause we don't need it anymore? You know, the same oil that bankrolls half the paragon countries on the planet like our good friends the Saudis. In case you can't tell, I believe that line of reasoning is complete garbage.
- chrisbennet 11y agoCould clarify that a bit for me? Thx.
- KMag 11y agoI believe the GP is talking about the fact that most of the jihadi foot solders are unemployed/under-employed with poor job prospects, and many are unmarried with poor marriage prospects. For instance, Saudi Arabia for a time had a program where they took convicted jihadis, gave them job training and loans/grants for dowries (and maybe ran some kind of matchmaking service... I forget the details) and saw significantly lowered re-arrest rates for jihadis who got jobs and wives shortly after leaving prison. Improving economic outlook reduces the pool of recruits, but the GP is questioning the long-term macroeconomic outlook in the region, and in turn questions the long-term viability of harming extremist recruiting by improving job prospects for young unmarried men.
- PaulHoule 11y agoAfter 9/11 we should have taken over Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq since that is where the money came from.
- mkaziz 11y agoYou can't attack Saudi Arabia because that's tantamount to the attacking the entire Muslim world. Not many Muslims I know have any love for the Saudi regime, but almost all have a huge emotional connection to the holy cities of Makkah and Medina that they don't even have for their own countries.
- PaulHoule 11y agoLeave Mecca and Medina alone then and just take the oil fields.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- restalis 11y agoThe cultural cities usually were exempted from destruction. See the siege of Leningrad (with targets being hospitals or bazaars but not bridges or other cultural artifacts, when it would have been easy to rake the ground all over) or the avoidance to target Kyoto (when almost every city over 30k people all around Japan having been bombed at one time or another).
- _pmf_ 11y agoThey don't print dollars themselves.
- aikah 11y ago> After 9/11 we should have taken over Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq since that is where the money came from. You can't do that, it would be like declaring war against Islam, since the Saudi are "custodian" of Muslim holly places like Mecca. Furthermore, while most hijackers were Saudi and Egyptian, ISI, Pakistani secret services financed the attacks. But you can't really destabilize Pakistan either, since they have they are an nuclear power. Basically, we are in a situation, I believe, where western nations are faking their war on terror, for various reasons (they can't tackle the Saudi issue, for instance). All the countries that were invaded/attacked by the west since 9/11, safe from Afghanistan, which was more or less warrant-able, had nothing to do with 9/11 : Iraq, Libya, Syria...
- lispm 11y agoGerman Vice Chancellor Gabriel: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12035838/German-vice-chancellor-accuses-Saudi-Arabia-of-funding-Islamic-extremism-in-the-West.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/120... http://news.yahoo.com/german-vice-chancellor-warns-saudi-arabia-over-islamist-135521960.html http://news.yahoo.com/german-vice-chancellor-warns-saudi-ara...
- _pmf_ 11y agoI'm skeptical. Wouldn't it be more beneficial for them to have a stabilized region under their control than a destabilized one? They have enough economical power to pull this off, so I assume the destabilization is merely a side effect of supporting the wrong groups due to religious association than a dedicated effort at destabilization.
- merpnderp 11y agoWhen Iran was supporting Shiite death squads in Iraq, I'm sure part of their plan was to destabilize the US backed unity government in order to further Shiite control of that government. Which looks like it pretty much worked. Destabilizing the Yemen government would allow the Shiite rebels to gain more power. Discrediting the recognized government (can't really say legitimate to any government over there), is an old strategy intended to grant leverage and the eventual bargaining table.
- rsync 11y agoObligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtcaIA9SU7o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtcaIA9SU7o
- jazzyk 11y agoBut the ultimate enabler of countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran is the US/West by 1. making them rich through oil-buying (some of the money goes to fund terrorism) and 2. selling them arms. So the West is to blame indirectly (and directly), too.
- shalnoff 11y agois it a Hacker News, isn't it?