5 ms·

You know FN is Front National, France's neo-Nazi party - right? I don't see the problem with an open source project using what influence it has to take a stand

You know FN is Front National, France's neo-Nazi party - right? I don't see the problem with an open source project using what influence it has to take a stand against that.

jdjdhnxn 11y ago
This is wrong. It may have in the past, but now it's more like the Donald Trump party. They've expelled neo-Nazi members like Le Pen's father.
- mintplant 11y ago
  It was founded by Jean-Marie Le Pen, a well-known and outspoken neo-Nazi, who led the party up until just four years ago. Currently his daughter is in charge. edit: jdjdhnxn edited their comment either while I was responding or after I had responded. I'm not sure which.
  - jdjdhnxn 11y ago
    Yes, and they've excommunicated him from the party as well as every other Nazi sympathizer. The Democratic Party had KKK members too in the past. Is it fair to call them a neo-Nazi Party too?
    - mintplant 11y ago
      You're comparing a span of decades to a span of four years. And I dispute the claim that every neo-Nazi influence has been expunged from the party, especially when control remains in the same family as the original leadership.
      - jdjdhnxni 11y ago
        The FN is seeing a very rapid rise in support among French Jews. I don't see how you can call them a neo-Nazi party when (a) they've publicly taken a stand against anti-semitism, (b) they've expelled all Nazi sympathizers, and (c) a large number of French Jews support them. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-24/anti-immigrant-le-pen-finds-rising-jewish-support-in-france http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-24/anti-immig... Opinion polls like Ifop show Cukierman’s comments reflect a growing reality. Between the last two presidential elections in 2007 and 2012, Jewish voters supporting the FN, the party’s acronym, more than tripled. The shift came after Marine Le Pen took over the helm in 2011, steering clear of her party-founder father Jean-Marie Le Pen’s anti-Semitic stance. In a comment to Bloomberg on the side lines of a conference in Paris Tuesday, Marine Le Pen made common cause with France’s Jews. “It’s the rise of Islamism that hits, hurts and kills,” she said. “It’s time to fight the danger threatening French Jews.” She welcomed Cukierman’s comments, saying “his words reveal an internal debate within the Jewish community. The comfortable idea that anti-Semitism is a right-wing theme is not true anymore and hasn’t been for decades.”
    - song 11y ago
      Their political stance is still pretty similar (albeit sugar coated to be easier to swallow). They are still a racist nationalist party. The only thing they've really stopped doing is making embarrassing revisionists statements.
      - jdjdhnxni 11y ago
        The political stance is not similar at all. The party has taken a 180 turn on antisemitism for instance. The reason why some French Jews for example support Front National is because its leaders see young Muslims as the greatest threat to Jews in France. "Fascists" are not the only ones supporting FN. See the link below. http://www.europe1.fr/mediacenter/emissions/l-interview-de-jean-pierre-elkabbach/videos/cukierman-c-est-le-devoir-de-l-etat-de-proteger-les-citoyens-francais-juifs-2380835 http://www.europe1.fr/mediacenter/emissions/l-interview-de-j...
        song 11y ago
        So they are now better because they stopped discriminating against one group and advocate instead discriminating against another group? I'm against discrimination in all its form, I'm against amalgamating a group of people and generalizing that the faults of a small minority are the faults of everyone in that group. Terrorist attacks were awful but they're a small minority of fanatics.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- mkesper 11y ago
  They just dress their brown uniforms in nicer colours and want to call it "Bleu Marine". Ms LePen had her father expelled because much less people would vote FN because of him __openly__ showing Nazi-think and disputing gas chambers, not because she would differ in opinion.
  - jdjdhnxni 11y ago
    That is not even close to true. Le Pen has openly advocated for Israel, has slammed the BDS, has received numerous endorsements from European Jewish leaders. The FN is nothing like her father's, which is why it's winning popular support among many in France, including a large contingent of French Jews.
    - mkesper 11y ago
      It seems these two groups (pro-settlers and FN) share fear of and hatred for Arabs/islam. This doen't make them any nicer, in my opinion. http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/130460/french-jewish-leader-backs-marine-le-pen http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/130460/french-jewish-le...
vkazanov 11y ago
Neo-nazi? How so? You mistake nazis for nationalists, don't you..?
zapu 11y ago
Again, I have nothing against people voicing their opinions. But I don't like people dragging their open source projects into this. What you end up with are some people getting offended or marginalized, because your views do not align with theirs, and some other people praising you - which is fine, but all of this is very unrelated to the software itself. What's the point? N++ will not influence anything by making this statement.
- mintplant 11y ago
  > What you end up with are some people getting offended or marginalized I expect this is exactly the intention, to scare FN supporters away from the project and its community. Open source projects in particular are defined by the people involved with them, and the author does not wish to work (for free) with and for people who threaten his ability to live peacefully in his home country.

You know FN is Front National, France's neo-Nazi party - right? I don't see the problem with an open source project using what influence it has to take a stand against that.

jdjdhnxn 11y ago

This is wrong. It may have in the past, but now it's more like the Donald Trump party. They've expelled neo-Nazi members like Le Pen's father.

mintplant 11y ago
It was founded by Jean-Marie Le Pen, a well-known and outspoken neo-Nazi, who led the party up until just four years ago. Currently his daughter is in charge. edit: jdjdhnxn edited their comment either while I was responding or after I had responded. I'm not sure which.
- jdjdhnxn 11y ago
  Yes, and they've excommunicated him from the party as well as every other Nazi sympathizer. The Democratic Party had KKK members too in the past. Is it fair to call them a neo-Nazi Party too?
  - mintplant 11y ago
    You're comparing a span of decades to a span of four years. And I dispute the claim that every neo-Nazi influence has been expunged from the party, especially when control remains in the same family as the original leadership.
    - jdjdhnxni 11y ago
      The FN is seeing a very rapid rise in support among French Jews. I don't see how you can call them a neo-Nazi party when (a) they've publicly taken a stand against anti-semitism, (b) they've expelled all Nazi sympathizers, and (c) a large number of French Jews support them. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-24/anti-immigrant-le-pen-finds-rising-jewish-support-in-france http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-24/anti-immig... Opinion polls like Ifop show Cukierman’s comments reflect a growing reality. Between the last two presidential elections in 2007 and 2012, Jewish voters supporting the FN, the party’s acronym, more than tripled. The shift came after Marine Le Pen took over the helm in 2011, steering clear of her party-founder father Jean-Marie Le Pen’s anti-Semitic stance. In a comment to Bloomberg on the side lines of a conference in Paris Tuesday, Marine Le Pen made common cause with France’s Jews. “It’s the rise of Islamism that hits, hurts and kills,” she said. “It’s time to fight the danger threatening French Jews.” She welcomed Cukierman’s comments, saying “his words reveal an internal debate within the Jewish community. The comfortable idea that anti-Semitism is a right-wing theme is not true anymore and hasn’t been for decades.”
  - song 11y ago
    Their political stance is still pretty similar (albeit sugar coated to be easier to swallow). They are still a racist nationalist party. The only thing they've really stopped doing is making embarrassing revisionists statements.
    - jdjdhnxni 11y ago
      The political stance is not similar at all. The party has taken a 180 turn on antisemitism for instance. The reason why some French Jews for example support Front National is because its leaders see young Muslims as the greatest threat to Jews in France. "Fascists" are not the only ones supporting FN. See the link below. http://www.europe1.fr/mediacenter/emissions/l-interview-de-jean-pierre-elkabbach/videos/cukierman-c-est-le-devoir-de-l-etat-de-proteger-les-citoyens-francais-juifs-2380835 http://www.europe1.fr/mediacenter/emissions/l-interview-de-j...
      - song 11y ago
        So they are now better because they stopped discriminating against one group and advocate instead discriminating against another group? I'm against discrimination in all its form, I'm against amalgamating a group of people and generalizing that the faults of a small minority are the faults of everyone in that group. Terrorist attacks were awful but they're a small minority of fanatics.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
mkesper 11y ago
They just dress their brown uniforms in nicer colours and want to call it "Bleu Marine". Ms LePen had her father expelled because much less people would vote FN because of him __openly__ showing Nazi-think and disputing gas chambers, not because she would differ in opinion.
- jdjdhnxni 11y ago
  That is not even close to true. Le Pen has openly advocated for Israel, has slammed the BDS, has received numerous endorsements from European Jewish leaders. The FN is nothing like her father's, which is why it's winning popular support among many in France, including a large contingent of French Jews.
  - mkesper 11y ago
    It seems these two groups (pro-settlers and FN) share fear of and hatred for Arabs/islam. This doen't make them any nicer, in my opinion. http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/130460/french-jewish-leader-backs-marine-le-pen http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/130460/french-jewish-le...

vkazanov 11y ago

Neo-nazi? How so? You mistake nazis for nationalists, don't you..?

zapu 11y ago

Again, I have nothing against people voicing their opinions. But I don't like people dragging their open source projects into this. What you end up with are some people getting offended or marginalized, because your views do not align with theirs, and some other people praising you - which is fine, but all of this is very unrelated to the software itself. What's the point? N++ will not influence anything by making this statement.

mintplant 11y ago
> What you end up with are some people getting offended or marginalized I expect this is exactly the intention, to scare FN supporters away from the project and its community. Open source projects in particular are defined by the people involved with them, and the author does not wish to work (for free) with and for people who threaten his ability to live peacefully in his home country.