4 ms·

Finland plans to give every citizen a basic income of 800€ a month

29 points by lumberjack 11y ago

ColinWright 11y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10090542 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10090542 : 108 days ago, 233 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10553008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10553008 : 23 days ago, 280 comments Other submissions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10093134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10093134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10682359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10682359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10685049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10685049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10683527 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10683527 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10511242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10511242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9730541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9730541 I'm sure there are more. Edited to correct incorrect URLs initially posted.
- gus_massa 11y ago
  The fist two threads you linked had no comments, perhaps you copied the wrong URL. (In this case, I'd avoid to link to the others threads unless one of them have a very interesting comment that deserves to be rescued from an obscure thread. This is more frequent in technical threads, were the comments may add a lot of information. Basic Income is too close to politics and usually the threads are full of unsupported opinions.)
  - ColinWright 11y ago
    That's bizarre - I'll look into that - thanks. Edit: Now fixed - thanks again for the heads-up.
acd 11y ago
This is quite interesting from an entrepreneur point of view, people could try lots of different startup, company ideas but still have at least a basic income.
- sharemywin 11y ago
  not if you've got to take care of your disabled grandma because her benefits got cut and she can't live by herself anymore.
  - stephen_cagle 11y ago
    She gets the 800 as well. Seems much more fair than the system in the United States, where benefits accrue relative to your political influence (or, often, the political influence of the lobbying group that manages your interest).
deepnet 11y ago
Another way to look at this is tax money that the government would have spent is now spent by the citizenry directly. Giving people money rather than, government, banks or as corporate tax breaks is a novel way to redistribute wealth - in direct oppositition to the paralysing bailout / austerity cycle much of Europe is suffering from. The surprising sucess of Bush's economic stimulus cheques shows money distributed this way stays local longer stimulating economic activity in small business which provide long term employment and community investement - entrepreneurs are in great part the wealth of nations. This removes the poverty trap, alters everyones risk profile for startups, and future proofs an economy against robocalypse - looking forward to seeing this in action.
- sharemywin 11y ago
  I doubt taking money from the disabled and the elderly and giving it to able bodied people is going to "help" them out of poverty.
  - efes 11y ago
    I've had friends and acquaintances in multiple countries who've had to choose not to do things because they risked no longer qualifying for disability and other programs that they were dependent on. Once you are in you tend to stay in because these programs inevitably victimize those who try to leave and fail. Giving everyone a little backup makes for a better society where people can take the risks they should take.
    - sharemywin 11y ago
      My grandmother is 83 years old and gets about $1200/mo to live on. So, your saying her lazy ass needs to go get a job when her check goes down to $800 so I can have an $800. it makes no sense. a negative income tax makes a lot more sense and you can set it up so the marginal tax rate doesn't discourage people from working.
      - drdeca 11y ago
sharemywin 11y ago
so who loses out on the plan? The disabled, elderly, children of poor single mothers. why should they get all the benefits. now spoiled rich college kids get extra money to spend.
randomname2 11y ago
Finland has been in a depression for a while. Their GDP is still 6pc below its previous peak. [1] If this is a last desperate ploy to prevent secular stagnation one has to wonder how effective this will be - it is sold as temporary but the moment it is withdrawn their economy truly craters. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/12001895/Finlands-depression-is-the-final-indictment-of-Europes-monetary-union.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/12001895/Finlands-depress...

29 points by lumberjack 11y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10090542 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10090542 : 108 days ago, 233 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10553008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10553008 : 23 days ago, 280 comments Other submissions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10093134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10093134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10682359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10682359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10685049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10685049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10683527 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10683527 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10511242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10511242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9730541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9730541 I'm sure there are more. Edited to correct incorrect URLs initially posted.

gus_massa 11y ago
The fist two threads you linked had no comments, perhaps you copied the wrong URL. (In this case, I'd avoid to link to the others threads unless one of them have a very interesting comment that deserves to be rescued from an obscure thread. This is more frequent in technical threads, were the comments may add a lot of information. Basic Income is too close to politics and usually the threads are full of unsupported opinions.)
- ColinWright 11y ago
  That's bizarre - I'll look into that - thanks. Edit: Now fixed - thanks again for the heads-up.

acd 11y ago

This is quite interesting from an entrepreneur point of view, people could try lots of different startup, company ideas but still have at least a basic income.

sharemywin 11y ago
not if you've got to take care of your disabled grandma because her benefits got cut and she can't live by herself anymore.
- stephen_cagle 11y ago
  She gets the 800 as well. Seems much more fair than the system in the United States, where benefits accrue relative to your political influence (or, often, the political influence of the lobbying group that manages your interest).

deepnet 11y ago

Another way to look at this is tax money that the government would have spent is now spent by the citizenry directly. Giving people money rather than, government, banks or as corporate tax breaks is a novel way to redistribute wealth - in direct oppositition to the paralysing bailout / austerity cycle much of Europe is suffering from. The surprising sucess of Bush's economic stimulus cheques shows money distributed this way stays local longer stimulating economic activity in small business which provide long term employment and community investement - entrepreneurs are in great part the wealth of nations. This removes the poverty trap, alters everyones risk profile for startups, and future proofs an economy against robocalypse - looking forward to seeing this in action.

sharemywin 11y ago
I doubt taking money from the disabled and the elderly and giving it to able bodied people is going to "help" them out of poverty.
- efes 11y ago
  I've had friends and acquaintances in multiple countries who've had to choose not to do things because they risked no longer qualifying for disability and other programs that they were dependent on. Once you are in you tend to stay in because these programs inevitably victimize those who try to leave and fail. Giving everyone a little backup makes for a better society where people can take the risks they should take.
  - sharemywin 11y ago
    My grandmother is 83 years old and gets about $1200/mo to live on. So, your saying her lazy ass needs to go get a job when her check goes down to $800 so I can have an $800. it makes no sense. a negative income tax makes a lot more sense and you can set it up so the marginal tax rate doesn't discourage people from working.
    - drdeca 11y ago

sharemywin 11y ago

so who loses out on the plan? The disabled, elderly, children of poor single mothers. why should they get all the benefits. now spoiled rich college kids get extra money to spend.

randomname2 11y ago

Finland has been in a depression for a while. Their GDP is still 6pc below its previous peak. [1] If this is a last desperate ploy to prevent secular stagnation one has to wonder how effective this will be - it is sold as temporary but the moment it is withdrawn their economy truly craters. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/12001895/Finlands-depression-is-the-final-indictment-of-Europes-monetary-union.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/12001895/Finlands-depress...