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Whilst personally I believe stereotypes can be accurate (mostly as the outcome of self-fulfilling prophecies), I would question this research. Take a look at th

Whilst personally I believe stereotypes can be accurate (mostly as the outcome of self-fulfilling prophecies), I would question this research. Take a look at the studies listed on page 10, each of the studies looks at a different question about stereotypes, with the answer based on the response of a few hundred people (maximum was around 700). Furthermore, the people used for the studies are all college students. I wouldn't trust the scientific accuracy of any data on human opinion that relied on such small data sets, especially when the people being questioned are from a non-representative slice of society.

danieltillett 11y ago
I think the point the article was making is there is no evidence that stereotypes are inaccurate and all the evidence we have is they are accurate. Of course it might be that all the studies are wrong, but the evidence to date doesn't point that way.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  My point was that the evidence isn't strong enough. Asking a relatively small group of students about their views on stereotypes isn't enough to base any strong conclusions on the views of the population at large, larger studies (10000+ people) with a wider group of people (different ages, different backgrounds) would give a much stronger footing for this research.
  - danieltillett 11y ago
    Well as the authors pointed out we have two competing hypothesis: Stereotypes are accurate or stereotypes are inaccurate. So far all the evidence suggests that they are accurate with no evidence suggesting that the are inaccurate. While the evidence we have might be wrong for various reasons, but you don’t just get to dismiss it without other evidence - gut feeling is not evidence. One of the more interesting things about the paper is the evidence we have for stereotypes being accurate is the evidence for this is some of the strongest in physiological studies. Almost everything else we know has less support. As for how strong does evidence have to be before you will believe you need to provide us with a p value you consider would be convincing.
Asbostos 11y ago
Not trying to be offensive, but did you feel the need to add the statement abut self-fulfilling prophecies because making a bare claim like "I believe in some stereotypes" is so politically sensitive that you're afraid of being judged as a racist or sexist? This is similar to the sort of complains the author has about older research into stereotypes assuming they were inaccurate without testing them - no doubt they made that assumption to protect themselves from allegations of racism/sexism/etc. The self-fulfilling prophecy argument is a way to say "OK, they might be true, but the blame lies with some other group of oppressors and it's still not an innate quality of the subjects themselves, so it's still not really fundamentally true.". Why shouldn't it be an innate quality? Maybe women really do earn less than men because of something different in how men and women earn money, not because men oppress women with their stereotypes. Without research, I don't think it's any more reasonable to say "stereotypes are mainly accurate because they're self-fulfilling prophecies" than to say "stereotypes are mainly accurate because groups of people are naturally different.".
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  > "Without research, I don't think it's any more reasonable to say "stereotypes are mainly accurate because they're self-fulfilling prophecies" than to say "stereotypes are mainly accurate because groups of people are naturally different."." First of all, calm down, I'm not here to argue with you. I made a statement about what I believe. I assumed that using the word 'believe' would make it clear that I was stating a personal opinion, it seems that wasn't clear enough. An important difference between my personal opinion and the science in the linked article is that I never attempted to pass off my opinion as scientifically proven. If the linked article had merely stated some compelling evidence to consider, then I wouldn't have bothered replying. My argument against it is that it makes large claims based on very limited evidence. Perhaps that's the best evidence we have so far, but I certainly wouldn't say it's in any way strong enough for the conclusions being pointed to. As for my own beliefs, I don't think they're controversial, nor am I attempting to hide anything. I believe that stereotypes can (note: not in all cases) be true because they become a self-fulfilling prophecy. How so? By setting expectations on accepted behavior. Consider the following: It is a common stereotype that men are more prone to have stronger sexual urges, and this is used to excuse many different behaviours. Sexual objectification of women is one such behaviour, we see this as normal because of the stereotype that men are overwhelmed by such stimulus, and so cannot be held as responsible for such behaviour. The more common the stereotype becomes, the more people use the stereotype to set expectations, which influences what becomes normal for the group in question, regardless of whether it was originally true or not.
jknightco 11y ago
700 people is more than enough to get a very representative sample: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  Depends on what you're measuring, and what proportion of the total possible sample size is being taken. If you're measuring the education quality at a University of a few thousand students, then 700 students (from across different faculties) is ample. If you're attempting to measure the perceived accuracy of stereotypes across society at large, then you need to show that your sample is representative of that society, as personal backgrounds and personal experience are likely to play large factors in determining how others are perceived. The sample you pick from matters. To give an example, imagine asking 700 people in the ethnic majority of a society about the effects of racism in that society.

danieltillett 11y ago

I think the point the article was making is there is no evidence that stereotypes are inaccurate and all the evidence we have is they are accurate. Of course it might be that all the studies are wrong, but the evidence to date doesn't point that way.

ZenoArrow 11y ago
My point was that the evidence isn't strong enough. Asking a relatively small group of students about their views on stereotypes isn't enough to base any strong conclusions on the views of the population at large, larger studies (10000+ people) with a wider group of people (different ages, different backgrounds) would give a much stronger footing for this research.
- danieltillett 11y ago
  Well as the authors pointed out we have two competing hypothesis: Stereotypes are accurate or stereotypes are inaccurate. So far all the evidence suggests that they are accurate with no evidence suggesting that the are inaccurate. While the evidence we have might be wrong for various reasons, but you don’t just get to dismiss it without other evidence - gut feeling is not evidence. One of the more interesting things about the paper is the evidence we have for stereotypes being accurate is the evidence for this is some of the strongest in physiological studies. Almost everything else we know has less support. As for how strong does evidence have to be before you will believe you need to provide us with a p value you consider would be convincing.

Asbostos 11y ago

Not trying to be offensive, but did you feel the need to add the statement abut self-fulfilling prophecies because making a bare claim like "I believe in some stereotypes" is so politically sensitive that you're afraid of being judged as a racist or sexist? This is similar to the sort of complains the author has about older research into stereotypes assuming they were inaccurate without testing them - no doubt they made that assumption to protect themselves from allegations of racism/sexism/etc. The self-fulfilling prophecy argument is a way to say "OK, they might be true, but the blame lies with some other group of oppressors and it's still not an innate quality of the subjects themselves, so it's still not really fundamentally true.". Why shouldn't it be an innate quality? Maybe women really do earn less than men because of something different in how men and women earn money, not because men oppress women with their stereotypes. Without research, I don't think it's any more reasonable to say "stereotypes are mainly accurate because they're self-fulfilling prophecies" than to say "stereotypes are mainly accurate because groups of people are naturally different.".

ZenoArrow 11y ago
> "Without research, I don't think it's any more reasonable to say "stereotypes are mainly accurate because they're self-fulfilling prophecies" than to say "stereotypes are mainly accurate because groups of people are naturally different."." First of all, calm down, I'm not here to argue with you. I made a statement about what I believe. I assumed that using the word 'believe' would make it clear that I was stating a personal opinion, it seems that wasn't clear enough. An important difference between my personal opinion and the science in the linked article is that I never attempted to pass off my opinion as scientifically proven. If the linked article had merely stated some compelling evidence to consider, then I wouldn't have bothered replying. My argument against it is that it makes large claims based on very limited evidence. Perhaps that's the best evidence we have so far, but I certainly wouldn't say it's in any way strong enough for the conclusions being pointed to. As for my own beliefs, I don't think they're controversial, nor am I attempting to hide anything. I believe that stereotypes can (note: not in all cases) be true because they become a self-fulfilling prophecy. How so? By setting expectations on accepted behavior. Consider the following: It is a common stereotype that men are more prone to have stronger sexual urges, and this is used to excuse many different behaviours. Sexual objectification of women is one such behaviour, we see this as normal because of the stereotype that men are overwhelmed by such stimulus, and so cannot be held as responsible for such behaviour. The more common the stereotype becomes, the more people use the stereotype to set expectations, which influences what becomes normal for the group in question, regardless of whether it was originally true or not.

jknightco 11y ago

700 people is more than enough to get a very representative sample: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination

ZenoArrow 11y ago
Depends on what you're measuring, and what proportion of the total possible sample size is being taken. If you're measuring the education quality at a University of a few thousand students, then 700 students (from across different faculties) is ample. If you're attempting to measure the perceived accuracy of stereotypes across society at large, then you need to show that your sample is representative of that society, as personal backgrounds and personal experience are likely to play large factors in determining how others are perceived. The sample you pick from matters. To give an example, imagine asking 700 people in the ethnic majority of a society about the effects of racism in that society.