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> And the claim that "Japan had planned to declare war shortly before its planes bombed the US fleet at Pearl Harbor, but a series of errors by typists and tran

by rntz 11y ago

> And the claim that "Japan had planned to declare war shortly before its planes bombed the US fleet at Pearl Harbor, but a series of errors by typists and translators prevented the Japanese embassy from giving Washington the declaration in time." is beyond absurd. It appears to be the truth, or pretty close to it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor#Japanese_declaration_of_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor#Japanes...

powera 11y ago
I think it's far far far more likely that they intended for the declaration to arrive after the attacks, but with some amount of plausible deniability.
- mikeash 11y ago
  Why is that? What advantage would that provide? It seems like they would have been a lot better off if the declaration had arrived before, but maybe I'm missing something.
  - marshray 11y ago
    My understanding is that the Japanese' Bushido code specifically looked down on sneak attacks. I.e., a lower-class Ninja* might kill you in your sleep, whereas a noble Samurai would wake you up and give you a chance to draw. If you've ever noticed the Americans' official reaction to Pearl Harbor often made a curious point about calling it a "despicable sneak attack". While a sneak attack seems like a rather obvious way to start a war for Westerners, the emphasis may have been a propaganda point towards the Japanese. [*] No offense is intended to any actual Ninjas.
    - krapp 11y ago
      "Bushido" and the culture of the samurai as most people understand it was more or less invented whole cloth as a romanticized, retroactive mythology[0], well after the cultural relevance of the samurai had passed on. It was embraced by the wartime Imperial government for its propaganda value, but that doesn't mean the government necessarily bought into it. [0]http://www.tofugu.com/2014/12/08/bushido-way-total-bullshit/ http://www.tofugu.com/2014/12/08/bushido-way-total-bullshit/
      - marshray 11y ago
        That was a really interesting read and I think it supports the concept that "Bushido" was in full swing by the 1940's: Bushido would find its ultimate embodiment in kamikaze pilots and foot-soldiers who “honorably” sacrificed themselves for their country. “Although some Japanese were taken prisoner,” David Powers of BBC writes, “most fought until they were killed or committed suicide.

by rntz 11y ago

powera 11y ago

I think it's far far far more likely that they intended for the declaration to arrive after the attacks, but with some amount of plausible deniability.

mikeash 11y ago
Why is that? What advantage would that provide? It seems like they would have been a lot better off if the declaration had arrived before, but maybe I'm missing something.
- marshray 11y ago
  My understanding is that the Japanese' Bushido code specifically looked down on sneak attacks. I.e., a lower-class Ninja* might kill you in your sleep, whereas a noble Samurai would wake you up and give you a chance to draw. If you've ever noticed the Americans' official reaction to Pearl Harbor often made a curious point about calling it a "despicable sneak attack". While a sneak attack seems like a rather obvious way to start a war for Westerners, the emphasis may have been a propaganda point towards the Japanese. [*] No offense is intended to any actual Ninjas.
  - krapp 11y ago
    "Bushido" and the culture of the samurai as most people understand it was more or less invented whole cloth as a romanticized, retroactive mythology[0], well after the cultural relevance of the samurai had passed on. It was embraced by the wartime Imperial government for its propaganda value, but that doesn't mean the government necessarily bought into it. [0]http://www.tofugu.com/2014/12/08/bushido-way-total-bullshit/ http://www.tofugu.com/2014/12/08/bushido-way-total-bullshit/
    - marshray 11y ago
      That was a really interesting read and I think it supports the concept that "Bushido" was in full swing by the 1940's: Bushido would find its ultimate embodiment in kamikaze pilots and foot-soldiers who “honorably” sacrificed themselves for their country. “Although some Japanese were taken prisoner,” David Powers of BBC writes, “most fought until they were killed or committed suicide.