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Someone once said that the public cloud was never about virtualization but rather automation. I would contend that the container revolution we're going through

by sumbry 11y ago

Someone once said that the public cloud was never about virtualization but rather automation. I would contend that the container revolution we're going through now isn't really about containers but ultimately distributed system platforms. And if it changes the way many have traditionally approached problems great! My main point is that we're really just at the beginning of all of this. I'm not picking on Docker (I'm actually embracing containers) but rather pointing out that many of these next gen solutions are only tackling the basic use cases right now. While I'm excited there is so much more work left to be done. Implementing many of these solutions still requires a bunch of engineering effort and I'd like to see more turnkey solutions. The developer end is definitely getting easier and more productive but the operational end is getting more complex and still not solving some use cases everyone has. How many different ways can different companies implement HA MySQL for example?! There are tons of other platforms out there that have recognized and solved many of this class of problems for years but the Cloud and microservices are actually starting to make this worse as adoption skyrockets. Platforms are not really a new thing, we went through this with JVM Platforms a ~decade ago, Heroku style PaaS ~five years ago, and now containers + cloud today. I guess this is what progress looks like :)

iheartmemcache 11y ago
Ha you weren't kidding about the number of HA MySQL drop-in engine replacements out there, damn. At least most people follow the ANSI-SQL standard, which is something. I'm not being snarky, but what are the use-cases that everyone have? I'd argue authentication and authorization would be one of the few things, and it was already solved with JSR 196 like 15 years ago. It worked, had a well defined spec, and most importantly it had interop with PAM on UNIX, Kerberos, LDAP, raw db's, mixed mode, you name it. Everyone complained it was too enterprisey and no one used it, so they re-invented the wheel in the early 00s with Rails and Devise and Authlogic and a billion other non-standards. Transactions? Persistence? Java's spec took care of that too, and fairly rigorously. So I'm with 100% with you on this being a solved problem. We're making gradual progress (i.e., the option to develop in a language where the correctness of our code can be formally verified thanks to more readily available, mathematically sound type-systems) but like any society there are trends, and where there are trends you'll have the recurrence of many old things (Interpol ripping off Joy Division) and the invention of a few new things (where are often the composition of two older ideas, or the implementation of a new idea which wasn't computationally feasible previously but now is, or a concept from another industry like signal analysis or three-phase road traffic theory applied to our code-monkey'ing domain). RE: Overall progress - Microsoft is doing some fantastic things in Powershell, effectively taking concepts like package management, man pages, and the shell, extracting the best elements from each of those, and implementing them in a consistent manner. No more choosing between systemd or init.d or other holy wars. If you want to do it differently, you effectively have a standardized interface to write your new implementation against within most of the platform. Don't like ASP.NET's templating system? No problem, it's all open source, and you can swap your own in, but it's all modular so nothing will break, and your co-workers can continue working in the traditional Razor templating.

by sumbry 11y ago

iheartmemcache 11y ago

Ha you weren't kidding about the number of HA MySQL drop-in engine replacements out there, damn. At least most people follow the ANSI-SQL standard, which is something. I'm not being snarky, but what are the use-cases that everyone have? I'd argue authentication and authorization would be one of the few things, and it was already solved with JSR 196 like 15 years ago. It worked, had a well defined spec, and most importantly it had interop with PAM on UNIX, Kerberos, LDAP, raw db's, mixed mode, you name it. Everyone complained it was too enterprisey and no one used it, so they re-invented the wheel in the early 00s with Rails and Devise and Authlogic and a billion other non-standards. Transactions? Persistence? Java's spec took care of that too, and fairly rigorously. So I'm with 100% with you on this being a solved problem. We're making gradual progress (i.e., the option to develop in a language where the correctness of our code can be formally verified thanks to more readily available, mathematically sound type-systems) but like any society there are trends, and where there are trends you'll have the recurrence of many old things (Interpol ripping off Joy Division) and the invention of a few new things (where are often the composition of two older ideas, or the implementation of a new idea which wasn't computationally feasible previously but now is, or a concept from another industry like signal analysis or three-phase road traffic theory applied to our code-monkey'ing domain). RE: Overall progress - Microsoft is doing some fantastic things in Powershell, effectively taking concepts like package management, man pages, and the shell, extracting the best elements from each of those, and implementing them in a consistent manner. No more choosing between systemd or init.d or other holy wars. If you want to do it differently, you effectively have a standardized interface to write your new implementation against within most of the platform. Don't like ASP.NET's templating system? No problem, it's all open source, and you can swap your own in, but it's all modular so nothing will break, and your co-workers can continue working in the traditional Razor templating.