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> for the record: I've done both. I've had a number of very physically intensive jobs when I started my career and to this day I'm grateful every bloody day tha

by skue 11y ago

> for the record: I've done both. I've had a number of very physically intensive jobs when I started my career and to this day I'm grateful every bloody day that my life took a turn for the better and that I don't have to work until I can't stand up straight anymore. Being not the most physically strong person I realize that if I had continued down that path I would have been a physical wreck by now. > Have some respect for the people that do the heavy lifting. And if you're unconvinced: go take a manual labor job for a year or so and re-read your comment here. Jacques, why the rancor and assumption that the OP and other commenters (like the GP) haven't also had physical jobs? I certainly have… It's all I did the first several years of my working life. And like you, my life is now quite different. You have a different point of view, but it's not because we haven't done physical work. In fact, in my case I'd say it was my experience doing that kind of work that leads me to identify with what the OP describes in the linked article.

jacquesm 11y ago
> why the rancor and assumption that the OP and other commenters (like the GP) haven't also had physical jobs? I'll be happy to accept evidence to the contrary, but by the looks of it the OP has not. > I certainly have… Good, so you'll appreciate my viewpoint a bit more than those of us who happen to have lucked out and have been desk jockeys since the start of our professional lives. > It's all I did the first several years of my life. And like you, my life is now quite different. My assumption is that because of having had a period in your life where you worked really hard for relatively very little pay that you appreciate what you have today a lot more than you would otherwise. > You have a different point of view, but it's not because we haven't done physical work. In fact, in my case I'd say it was my experience doing that kind of work that leads me to identify with what the OP describes in the linked article. I subscribe to some parts of what the article relates to but I take exception with certain parts and the casual way in which 'men without a college degree' (which the lady writing the article is not on both counts) are being labeled as implied slackers because 'We know they watch more television and do less childcare than working-class women, and are less likely than more affluent men to work long hours'.
- chillingeffect 11y ago
  jacquesm, I think your comments are completely justified. And I don't think they're slights against the HN crowd. The article enacts precisely what most feminists decry about patriarchy: it's one gender telling a second one how it's expected to perform. It does this by accumulating evidence to build a case against men. The statistics it uses [1] are clearly chosen to de-emphasize the value of men in society. What's notable is what's missing. For example, is there a stat on "contributing toward the betterment of the world through open-source software development" ? More food for thought: "we spend less time talking about how women help perpetuate the shadow side of the patriarchy." [2] [1] http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/time-spent-in-leisure-activities-in-2014-by-gender-age-and-educational-attainment.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/time-spent-in-leisure-activ... [2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/owning-pink/201408/women-please-stop-shaming-men https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/owning-pink/201408/wome...

by skue 11y ago

jacquesm 11y ago

> why the rancor and assumption that the OP and other commenters (like the GP) haven't also had physical jobs? I'll be happy to accept evidence to the contrary, but by the looks of it the OP has not. > I certainly have… Good, so you'll appreciate my viewpoint a bit more than those of us who happen to have lucked out and have been desk jockeys since the start of our professional lives. > It's all I did the first several years of my life. And like you, my life is now quite different. My assumption is that because of having had a period in your life where you worked really hard for relatively very little pay that you appreciate what you have today a lot more than you would otherwise. > You have a different point of view, but it's not because we haven't done physical work. In fact, in my case I'd say it was my experience doing that kind of work that leads me to identify with what the OP describes in the linked article. I subscribe to some parts of what the article relates to but I take exception with certain parts and the casual way in which 'men without a college degree' (which the lady writing the article is not on both counts) are being labeled as implied slackers because 'We know they watch more television and do less childcare than working-class women, and are less likely than more affluent men to work long hours'.

chillingeffect 11y ago
jacquesm, I think your comments are completely justified. And I don't think they're slights against the HN crowd. The article enacts precisely what most feminists decry about patriarchy: it's one gender telling a second one how it's expected to perform. It does this by accumulating evidence to build a case against men. The statistics it uses [1] are clearly chosen to de-emphasize the value of men in society. What's notable is what's missing. For example, is there a stat on "contributing toward the betterment of the world through open-source software development" ? More food for thought: "we spend less time talking about how women help perpetuate the shadow side of the patriarchy." [2] [1] http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/time-spent-in-leisure-activities-in-2014-by-gender-age-and-educational-attainment.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/time-spent-in-leisure-activ... [2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/owning-pink/201408/women-please-stop-shaming-men https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/owning-pink/201408/wome...