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Trains, Trains, Trains. Get real. First off they cost so much more per mile they already bust the bank and then comes maintenance. Finally the end is they cann

Trains, Trains, Trains. Get real. First off they cost so much more per mile they already bust the bank and then comes maintenance. Finally the end is they cannot respond to population movements. Light rail is already a boondoggle of an expense in many cities trying to fit them in, with per passenger costs so many times that of alternate solutions only a politician could love it. Trains are a romanticism that blinds people to their real cost. Heavy rail has many uses and sharing tracks can be a good solution. However when new heavy rail is proposed they don't want to take into account existing support infrastructure, they want to build all new end points; here is a hint start and end at an major airport where taxis and buses already provide service and parking is plenty As for the safety canard, we don't have enough history on autonomous cars and buses with proper planning to make that call. If you want to even the playing field, instead of making a new train track you instead use that same space for dedicate autonomous vehicle travel. In this you can let cars and buses serve the same central points and at the end of the route there is no need to change vehicles. Bonus, no trains or tracks to maintain!

npsimons 11y ago
> Bonus, no trains or tracks to maintain! I'm honestly curious: what's the maintenance cost differential between train tracks and road? And between trains and other forms of public transport (buses, etc)?
- kuschku 11y ago
  Roads for busses are far more expensive to maintain than light rail. Road maintenance of asphalt road for heavy use (like bus lanes) is so expensive that all the bus stations here are using the same road-building techniques the romans already used, and they still go through the stones in a few decades. Just for my city the estimated savings are in the amount of 19 million EUR for switching the main bus lines to light rail. And it would improve quality.
  - RightWingRabble 11y ago
    Do you have a link to the numbers? I'm curious about the actual costs, since what you're saying contradicts Shivetya. Without numbers and sources, I have no idea who's actually right.
    - npsimons 11y ago
      To be fair, Shivetya didn't back up his claim either; in fact he almost made it sound like roads and buses cost nothing with his last sentence, which is exactly why I asked that inconvenient question.
    - kuschku 11y ago
      I’ve been trying to find the case study for a few months anymore, but since the website redesign in 2004 it’s been less accessible, and recently I can’t find it anymore at all. If I find it, I’ll link it. Obviously, it depends on the actual situation. Replacing routes where busses are running as rare as every 10 or 15 min, like suburban routes, makes no sense. But downtown routes where articulated and bi-articulated busses are running every minute, and they still can’t cope with the demand? Well, that’s exactly what light rail was made for.
kaftoy 11y ago
While there are lots of materials (studies, books, etc.) to back the article, what backs your claims about the train costs?

npsimons 11y ago

> Bonus, no trains or tracks to maintain! I'm honestly curious: what's the maintenance cost differential between train tracks and road? And between trains and other forms of public transport (buses, etc)?

kuschku 11y ago
Roads for busses are far more expensive to maintain than light rail. Road maintenance of asphalt road for heavy use (like bus lanes) is so expensive that all the bus stations here are using the same road-building techniques the romans already used, and they still go through the stones in a few decades. Just for my city the estimated savings are in the amount of 19 million EUR for switching the main bus lines to light rail. And it would improve quality.
- RightWingRabble 11y ago
  Do you have a link to the numbers? I'm curious about the actual costs, since what you're saying contradicts Shivetya. Without numbers and sources, I have no idea who's actually right.
  - npsimons 11y ago
    To be fair, Shivetya didn't back up his claim either; in fact he almost made it sound like roads and buses cost nothing with his last sentence, which is exactly why I asked that inconvenient question.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    I’ve been trying to find the case study for a few months anymore, but since the website redesign in 2004 it’s been less accessible, and recently I can’t find it anymore at all. If I find it, I’ll link it. Obviously, it depends on the actual situation. Replacing routes where busses are running as rare as every 10 or 15 min, like suburban routes, makes no sense. But downtown routes where articulated and bi-articulated busses are running every minute, and they still can’t cope with the demand? Well, that’s exactly what light rail was made for.

kaftoy 11y ago

While there are lots of materials (studies, books, etc.) to back the article, what backs your claims about the train costs?