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"People often forget that jobs are an expense, not a benefit. We should celebrate that society can do more with less." Not until such time that people don't ne

by s73v3r 11y ago

"People often forget that jobs are an expense, not a benefit. We should celebrate that society can do more with less." Not until such time that people don't need a job to survive. As is, a job is currently required to pay rent and buy food. "If someone thinks that jobs need to be created through artificial means to keep people busy and give them some money, then that person has a rather dim view of human potential." So how do you plan on housing and feeding all of the people who's jobs are displaced through technology?

dragonwriter 11y ago
> Not until such time that people don't need a job to survive. People need an income to survive. Most people get incomes through jobs, some get them through capital holdings, a few get them through other means. > So how do you plan on housing and feeding all of the people who's jobs are displaced through technology? Jobs being displaced through technology means output is produced more effectively without the job than it would be with the job, and someone is capturing the value of that output. The issue becomes one of distributing the value of the output.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  "People need an income to survive. Most people get incomes through jobs" Exactly, which makes any quibbling to my statement nothing but worthless pedantry. "Jobs being displaced through technology means output is produced more effectively without the job than it would be with the job, and someone is capturing the value of that output." Which has absolutely nothing to do with my question. "The issue becomes one of distributing the value of the output." Which is just rephrasing my question.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > Exactly, which makes any quibbling to my statement nothing but worthless pedantry. No, it doesn't. The job is not the need, its just the most common way of satisfying the need. The need is the income. Automation of jobs because automation is more efficient means that the economy becomes better at producing output which can be distributed through other existing means of providing income, notably, tax-funded social benefit programs.
    - s73v3r 11y ago
      I'm sorry, but I find that a whole load of horse shit. Especially in today's political climate in the US, I see there being absolutely no benefit to the people who's jobs are displaced. Basic income is a non-starter, especially basic income to the level where one could actually raise a family on, as many of these people are family people.
    - TeMPOraL 11y ago
      > The job is not the need (...) The need is the income. Or, as the 'nostromo once wrote, "No job is the goal. No money is the problem." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8987073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8987073 (I do actually have it on a t-shirt now.)

by s73v3r 11y ago

dragonwriter 11y ago

> Not until such time that people don't need a job to survive. People need an income to survive. Most people get incomes through jobs, some get them through capital holdings, a few get them through other means. > So how do you plan on housing and feeding all of the people who's jobs are displaced through technology? Jobs being displaced through technology means output is produced more effectively without the job than it would be with the job, and someone is capturing the value of that output. The issue becomes one of distributing the value of the output.

s73v3r 11y ago
"People need an income to survive. Most people get incomes through jobs" Exactly, which makes any quibbling to my statement nothing but worthless pedantry. "Jobs being displaced through technology means output is produced more effectively without the job than it would be with the job, and someone is capturing the value of that output." Which has absolutely nothing to do with my question. "The issue becomes one of distributing the value of the output." Which is just rephrasing my question.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > Exactly, which makes any quibbling to my statement nothing but worthless pedantry. No, it doesn't. The job is not the need, its just the most common way of satisfying the need. The need is the income. Automation of jobs because automation is more efficient means that the economy becomes better at producing output which can be distributed through other existing means of providing income, notably, tax-funded social benefit programs.
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    I'm sorry, but I find that a whole load of horse shit. Especially in today's political climate in the US, I see there being absolutely no benefit to the people who's jobs are displaced. Basic income is a non-starter, especially basic income to the level where one could actually raise a family on, as many of these people are family people.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    > The job is not the need (...) The need is the income. Or, as the 'nostromo once wrote, "No job is the goal. No money is the problem." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8987073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8987073 (I do actually have it on a t-shirt now.)