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In my mind, the erosion of privacy and freedom - some of the most vaunted principles of the West - is the ultimate triumph of terrorist organizations like ISIS
by mkaziz 11y ago
In my mind, the erosion of privacy and freedom - some of the most vaunted principles of the West - is the ultimate triumph of terrorist organizations like ISIS and Al-Qaeda. They can't beat us by strength of arms, so instead they're stunting our culture.
- javajosh 11y agoYep, its like poisons that kill you by triggering an overreactive histamine response. The body's zealous desire to protect itself is precisely what kills it.
- vollmond 11y agoI like that analogy. Can you give an example of a specific poison that does that?
- pjc50 11y agoNice try, terrorist.
- gregtidwell 11y agoPeanuts for some people.
- vollmond 11y agoOh. Right. Hmm.
- AdmiralAsshat 11y agoAutoimmune diseases like Lupus trigger something similar.
- javajosh 11y agoBasically any severe allergic reaction is a histamine response, AFAIK (IANAD). Bee stings, rotten fish, nut allergies, etc. Additionally, there are a large number of ailments that trick the body into attacking itself, like some forms of arthritis, and of course AIDS.
- mc32 11y agoI think that's just a side effect. I don't think terrorists actually care that much about western society. They want to ultimately defeat the west at least ideologically, if not economically and ultimately militarily (in order they can further their own goals) So it's beside the point to them. Let's say someone wants your money, so in fear, you stop spending your money, stop bringing your wallet with you, the thief doesn't care about that, what they want is to take your money, ultimately.
- xixixao 11y agoNoooo. We cannot win the "war on terrorism" while people still have this misconception. The Islamic terrorist don't care about the west at all, their goal is to gain ground in countries with Islamic population. The only reason west got dragged into this war was because AL Quaida were miserably failing at this in the 90s, and so tried to create a common enemy: the west. I encourage everyone to read more on this topic and the background behind AL Quaida and Isis.
- mc32 11y agoThat's an interesting valid point, still, the terrorists don't actually care how we deal with things internally. In other words they are not concerned with our behavioral changes and whether they lead to an erosion of liberty or not. Their only concern is to further their own goals, whatever they be.
- jacquesm 11y ago> Their only concern is to further their own goals, whatever they be. Yes, but we don't actually have to help them to further their goals.
- mc32 11y agoIf they only care about their world and to further their own goals in the middle east and don't actually care about the west directly (we are a pretext), and don't plan to extend their power beyond their historic influence, how would anything happening in the west be to their benefit? They already have all their lines of reason to collectively paint the west as an enemy, the west can't be made "double enemy". It's already the enemy, so what benefit is it to them we have self inflicted wounds, unless they have sights on expanding their dominion to the west?
- crusso 11y agoThat's because those freedoms work great when members of a society are seeking freedom as an end goal. When the end goal of significant numbers is despotism, collectivism, or hegemonic religious rule, those very freedoms become exploitable weaknesses. As my mom said, "This is why we can't have nice things."
- JumpCrisscross 11y ago> When the end goal of significant numbers is despotism, collectivism, or hegemonic religious rule, those very freedoms become exploitable weaknesses Few people hold "despotism, collectivism, or hegemonic religious rule" as end games. Instead, freedom is traded for safety and stability for one's way of life.
- crusso 11y agoYou could likewise say that no one holds "freedom" as an endgame, but instead they want things and sexual partners. Freedom is just shorthand for these and many other once-removed concepts. There very much are people who want hegemonic religious rule as an end game. They spend a lot of time professing that desire and working toward it.
- DougWebb 11y agoThere was an article posted here a few weeks ago, written by a man who was held captive by ISIS for a long time. He said that he learned their ultimate goal has nothing to do with our culture or freedom. They believe armageddon is coming, that it is literaly going to be a big battle in a particular town in Syria near the Turkish border, and that the West is the enemy (descendants of the Roman empire) that their Moslem army must defeat. The terrorist acts are intended to force this battle to commence, which they are confident they will win. If they really believe this, I'm stunned at how oblivious they are. If an all-out battle really took place, they wouldn't face an army. They'd face an airforce that'd be a lot more aggressive than the one they're currently facing. The US and Russia could turn Syria into a sheet of radioactive glass if they wanted to / had to in order to "win armageddon". The only reason ISIS is able to continue to exist is because of our tolerance and compassion.
- vixen99 11y agoThis view has also been put forward by Bernard Haykel who appears to be regarded as a notable secular authority on Islamic State. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Haykel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Haykel "What ISIS Really Wants" http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isi...
- ameen 11y agoOr Indifference? IS never really threatened U.S. or Western interests, the Paris attacks were the first time they reached so far. They (along with the Syrian regime) have been butchering Syrians by the thousands. Btw, the Daesh captive was Nicolas Henin, and he's actively campaigning against airstrikes [1] as that's exactly playing into their sick plans. And he speaks that they're deluded enough to think they'll find support despite their inhumane acts. Muslims despise Daesh, heck the orthodox the individual their hatred for these individuals deepens.[2] [1] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/02/nicolas-henin-video-isis-syria-strikes http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/02/nicolas-henin-v... [2] Source: My family and friends, I'm a Muslim born in the holy city of Makkah, no one I know doesn't actively despise Daesh and their kind. Most of us identify more with western values.
- mcv 11y agoThey're not stunting out culture, they're convincing us to stunt our culture, and we're giving in. It's trivial for us to say no, and yet we don't.
- Shivetya 11y agoeffectively playing a similar game as being played out on college campuses, forcing the establish of safe spaces. Safe from freedom and rarely anything else.
- kvncombo 11y agoErosion of privacy and freedom is inevitable. Mass human breeding on earth puts so much pressure on all aspects of our existence. I believe this will necessarily lead to reduced freedom as mere survival becomes more important. Small groups of people or even individuals have so much power and can inflict terrifying damage. How else do you solve such a problem? At the end of the day, people will demand the problem is solved.
- ianopolous 11y agoRaising the lowest education level and the lowest happiness level would go a long way. i.e. a society that genuinely looks after and educates everyone. Easier said than done though.
- kvncombo 11y agoYou're absolutely right. I'm kind of pessimistic these days about the future.. Education the critical thing we need to even start moving in the right direction.
- beccasanchez 11y agoBut so many of the terrorists were well educated. They don't suffer lack of money or education, they suffer from a lack of meaning in their lives.
- ianopolous 11y agoI've heard this claim as well, and that's why I say happiness as well. But that's even harder than education to both define and achieve.
- sandworm101 11y agoISIS and AlQaeda aren't the ones taking freedom from the west. Similar organizations have existed for hundreds of years without such impact. If it wasn't ISIS it would be something else. The source of erosion is internal. So too is the blame.
- fragsworth 11y agoGood luck trying to fix the source of the problem when information spreads as quickly as it does today. Any attempt to put terrorist attacks in perspective, or to calm people's reactions, is met with knee-jerk "How dare you" responses.
- sandworm101 11y agoThat's why we have so many mechanisms to slow official reactions. We know that, as humans, we are prone to rash decisions in the face of crisis. Even the patriot act contains a sunset provision, an internal recognition that it was likely a knee-jerk reaction to fear. But the renewal of that provision is not a rash decision, nor is it taken by ISIS. The decision to keep the Patriot Act alive year after year is a cold political calculation divorced from any immediate crisis.
- RobertoG 11y ago"Similar organizations have existed for hundreds of years" So have done the internal source of erosion, is just they now have the technological capacities. In absence of a strong social movement against, this doesn't look well for the future.
- sandworm101 11y agoTake a look at britain in the 50s, or the US in the 60s. Speech was more heavily stymied then than it is today. It cost more to do so, but governments then still tracked people's activity. If anything, today's technology allows us to recognize and react to such behaviour whereas previous generations remained unaware.
- 11y ago
- cm2187 11y agoAnd they are achieving what the USSR failed to achieve with far less means.
- sliverstorm 11y agoI have always found it rather hard to believe that Islamists would dedicate their entire lives to eroding your privacy. It always seemed like #1 an extremely egocentric worldview and #2 completely not in fitting with their style.