4 ms·

I don't really agree with the value gained from not naming alleged criminals, it seems like a trivialization of a complex issue.

by bm1362 11y ago

ajiang 11y ago
Completely agree that it's a complex issue. After the last few news cycles around mass shootings, I started wondering what someone in tech could do to help, even just a little, as most of the solutions being suggested were on the policy side. It's tough to feel helpless. Many organizations (including the National Issues Forums [1]) mentioned reducing the mention of shootings in the media to lower the notoriety of gunmen. Figured this could be a fairly simple way to help that cause. [1] https://www.nifi.org/sites/default/files/product-downloads/mass_shootings_community.pdf https://www.nifi.org/sites/default/files/product-downloads/m...
caffeinewriter 11y ago
While I understand and partly agree, some (many?) spree shooters are looking to live on in infamy, and this is some small form of taking that from them.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jamesrcole 11y ago
  ...and removing an incentive for prospective shooters.
  - bm1362 11y ago
    This is obviously something you care about; probably more so than my dissent. I think that prescribing generalized explanations to human behavior (see Economics) is a dangerous gamble. I also believe that the media has the onus to report things correctly, in full. As a national or international spectator, it may not be important whom commits these crimes. I was recently living in Seattle when a shooting happened at Seattle Pacific University. My girlfriend at the time was on campus when the shooting started and the media frenzy was actually beneficial for the community.
jschmitz28 11y ago
Often the media gets the alleged criminals wrong, and then innocent people are harassed via social media. Even if they get the names right, people with the same name get harassed as well.
- bm1362 11y ago
  Sure, but isn't that more of an argument that the media isn't being diligent?
jamesrcole 11y ago
The question is, might it make some positive difference, and how big or small might that difference be?
- ledude 11y ago
  ignorance is bliss. here it's even self-imposed. what a win for us.
  - jamesrcole 11y ago
    I don't think you understand the reason for not publicizing the shooters' names. It's to remove the notoriety incentive for potential shooters.
nikatwork 11y ago
This Mother Jones article sums up the argument cogently: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/media-inspires-mass-shooters-copycats http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/media-inspires-m... It's not just murders. Australian media will often not report suicides to prevent triggering copycats.
- shkkmo 11y ago
  I don't agree that that provides any backing for this plugin: The potential mass murders have no way to know that you won't see their name. This would have to become a viral phenomenon and be reported on extensively to even possibly have any effect beyond making you feel better. I severely doubt this plugin could ever have a material effect on the number of people who read the names. This also does nothing to punish those news organizations that do publish names and faces for mass murderers and since the people who care about this won't know who does and doesn't, it actually reduces the incentive for news organization to not publish names for faces. Want to make a plugin that has an effect? Make a plugin that blacklists any news site that publishes names/faces so that when you try to read ANY article from those sites, the plugin instead finds similar articles from non-blacklisted publishers and displays links to those instead.
MaxfordAndSons 11y ago
What value is gained from naming them? What value is there in starting a mass media speculation frenzy about them, their family and friends? What value is there in galvanizing popular sentiment against the demographic groups they belong to, while simultaneously exposing them as potential role-models to other aggrieved/disturbed members of those same demographic groups? Obviously there are legal reasons that their names must be publicized at some juncture, but I can't think of any "value" in putting their names in the headlines.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  Among the benefits is that naming them in the media allows people who know them, have previous contact that perhaps the authorities don't know about, and have relevant information to have a trigger to recognize the relevance of the information and come forward with it. This may be information which is inculpating, exculpating, or which relates to potential previously unknown parties that may be involved in addition to the identified subject.

I don't really agree with the value gained from not naming alleged criminals, it seems like a trivialization of a complex issue.

by bm1362 11y ago

I don't really agree with the value gained from not naming alleged criminals, it seems like a trivialization of a complex issue.

ajiang 11y ago

Completely agree that it's a complex issue. After the last few news cycles around mass shootings, I started wondering what someone in tech could do to help, even just a little, as most of the solutions being suggested were on the policy side. It's tough to feel helpless. Many organizations (including the National Issues Forums [1]) mentioned reducing the mention of shootings in the media to lower the notoriety of gunmen. Figured this could be a fairly simple way to help that cause. [1] https://www.nifi.org/sites/default/files/product-downloads/mass_shootings_community.pdf https://www.nifi.org/sites/default/files/product-downloads/m...

caffeinewriter 11y ago

While I understand and partly agree, some (many?) spree shooters are looking to live on in infamy, and this is some small form of taking that from them.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jamesrcole 11y ago
...and removing an incentive for prospective shooters.
- bm1362 11y ago
  This is obviously something you care about; probably more so than my dissent. I think that prescribing generalized explanations to human behavior (see Economics) is a dangerous gamble. I also believe that the media has the onus to report things correctly, in full. As a national or international spectator, it may not be important whom commits these crimes. I was recently living in Seattle when a shooting happened at Seattle Pacific University. My girlfriend at the time was on campus when the shooting started and the media frenzy was actually beneficial for the community.

jschmitz28 11y ago

Often the media gets the alleged criminals wrong, and then innocent people are harassed via social media. Even if they get the names right, people with the same name get harassed as well.

bm1362 11y ago
Sure, but isn't that more of an argument that the media isn't being diligent?

jamesrcole 11y ago

The question is, might it make some positive difference, and how big or small might that difference be?

ledude 11y ago
ignorance is bliss. here it's even self-imposed. what a win for us.
- jamesrcole 11y ago
  I don't think you understand the reason for not publicizing the shooters' names. It's to remove the notoriety incentive for potential shooters.

nikatwork 11y ago

This Mother Jones article sums up the argument cogently: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/media-inspires-mass-shooters-copycats http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/media-inspires-m... It's not just murders. Australian media will often not report suicides to prevent triggering copycats.

shkkmo 11y ago
I don't agree that that provides any backing for this plugin: The potential mass murders have no way to know that you won't see their name. This would have to become a viral phenomenon and be reported on extensively to even possibly have any effect beyond making you feel better. I severely doubt this plugin could ever have a material effect on the number of people who read the names. This also does nothing to punish those news organizations that do publish names and faces for mass murderers and since the people who care about this won't know who does and doesn't, it actually reduces the incentive for news organization to not publish names for faces. Want to make a plugin that has an effect? Make a plugin that blacklists any news site that publishes names/faces so that when you try to read ANY article from those sites, the plugin instead finds similar articles from non-blacklisted publishers and displays links to those instead.

MaxfordAndSons 11y ago

What value is gained from naming them? What value is there in starting a mass media speculation frenzy about them, their family and friends? What value is there in galvanizing popular sentiment against the demographic groups they belong to, while simultaneously exposing them as potential role-models to other aggrieved/disturbed members of those same demographic groups? Obviously there are legal reasons that their names must be publicized at some juncture, but I can't think of any "value" in putting their names in the headlines.

dragonwriter 11y ago
Among the benefits is that naming them in the media allows people who know them, have previous contact that perhaps the authorities don't know about, and have relevant information to have a trigger to recognize the relevance of the information and come forward with it. This may be information which is inculpating, exculpating, or which relates to potential previously unknown parties that may be involved in addition to the identified subject.