4 ms·

The issue is not if you eat a lot of meat or not, it is if you eat a lot of carbohydrates or not. I know plenty of fat vegans including a family member who bec

by pelle 17y ago

The issue is not if you eat a lot of meat or not, it is if you eat a lot of carbohydrates or not. I know plenty of fat vegans including a family member who became diabetic and suffered a stroke because of it. Of course your and my experiences are both anecdotal, but I do believe I have heard studies showing that vegetarians do suffer disproportionately of heart disease. I'll try and google it.

jerf 17y ago
Followup to that, because vegetarians eat things that are less dense in some vital nutrients, a good health-aware vegetarian will discover they need to stay away from the high-carb veggies like potatoes because they also have no nutrient value to speak of, and filling up on potatoes means you're not filling up on things high in iron (for example). (Yes, part of the reason some vegetarians are vegetarians is because plants can be more rich in nutrients, but it is not automatically balanced, and some vital nutrients are more challenging to get than others.) In that case, a vegetarian ends up eating a not-excessively-large portion of carbs naturally. A bad vegetarian who assumes if it's not meat it must be healthy can still get in trouble, not just on this front but on others as well. It's not that simple. (I've resolved that if any of my children ever want to be vegetarians, I'm OK with that, but a critical precondition is that they demonstrate that they have done their homework and understand the nutritional implications. I believe it can be done safely, but it's not trivial; it takes work in our environment.)
- anonjon 17y ago
  "(I've resolved that if any of my children ever want to be vegetarians, I'm OK with that, but a critical precondition is that they demonstrate that they have done their homework and understand the nutritional implications. I believe it can be done safely, but it's not trivial; it takes work in our environment.)" You legitimately have a point that there are certain nutritional deficiencies that vegans/vegetarians are more prone to. That said, I would hope that whether or not the child is a vegan, you would have him understand the nutritional implications of what he is eating. Being an omnivore safely is also quite difficult.
- jsdalton 17y ago
  Sorry, question, why do you say that potatoes have no nutritional value? Everything I have found seems to indicate potatoes are high in nutritional value (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato#Nutrition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato#Nutrition). I have also heard it said that it is possible to subsist entirely on a diet of milk and potatoes, as many Irish families did for quite a long time.
  - bobdole2695 17y ago
    Survive does not mean thrive. The Irish have also had a long time to adapt to that diet. They're much less carb sensitive than others. Hence the difference between people from cultures who've eaten a traditionally low-carb diet vs those eating a high-carb diet. Native Americans suffer greatly, but those who traditionally farmed (Asians who eat rice for example) are healthy.
xiaoma 17y ago
Then why are rural Chinese who live off of a rice and noodle based diet thin, while westerners who eat far more protein and fat are enormous? Measured against GDP, countries in which rice-based diets are common (Japan, China, Korea, Thailand, etc...) have very thin, very long lived people compared with the protein crazed areas such as the US, UK, Australia, Canada. Honestly, the only place I hear this carbohydrate-bashing crap is in English language news from places filled with fat people.
- pelle 17y ago
  According to UCSF's Lustig from "Sugar: The Bitter Truth" video in Lionhearts post it's because they don't consume hardly any fructose. I do believe though that urban Chinese and Japanese are experiencing the same health issues we are here due to increased fructose consumption. Traditional Inuit diets consist of 0 carbohydrates and is very high in fat. They had very low levels of obesity, heart disease and diabetes being unknown.
  - xiaoma 17y ago
    First of all, SE Asians have had access to a great deal of fruit for millenia, and rural Chinese are no exception. Secondly, Inuit are a very poor group to try to make your point with: "Inuit Greenlanders, who historically have had limited access to fruits and vegetables, have the worst longevity statistics in North America. Research from the past and present shows that they die on the average about 10 years younger and have a higher rate of cancer than the overall Canadian population" http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/diet-myths-do-primitive-peoples-really-live-longer.html http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/diet-myths-do-primitive... Edit: I don't doubt that highly processed foods that are full of fructose are dangerous. Of course eating a banana is different from getting the same amount of fructose by drinking soda.

by pelle 17y ago

jerf 17y ago

Followup to that, because vegetarians eat things that are less dense in some vital nutrients, a good health-aware vegetarian will discover they need to stay away from the high-carb veggies like potatoes because they also have no nutrient value to speak of, and filling up on potatoes means you're not filling up on things high in iron (for example). (Yes, part of the reason some vegetarians are vegetarians is because plants can be more rich in nutrients, but it is not automatically balanced, and some vital nutrients are more challenging to get than others.) In that case, a vegetarian ends up eating a not-excessively-large portion of carbs naturally. A bad vegetarian who assumes if it's not meat it must be healthy can still get in trouble, not just on this front but on others as well. It's not that simple. (I've resolved that if any of my children ever want to be vegetarians, I'm OK with that, but a critical precondition is that they demonstrate that they have done their homework and understand the nutritional implications. I believe it can be done safely, but it's not trivial; it takes work in our environment.)

anonjon 17y ago
"(I've resolved that if any of my children ever want to be vegetarians, I'm OK with that, but a critical precondition is that they demonstrate that they have done their homework and understand the nutritional implications. I believe it can be done safely, but it's not trivial; it takes work in our environment.)" You legitimately have a point that there are certain nutritional deficiencies that vegans/vegetarians are more prone to. That said, I would hope that whether or not the child is a vegan, you would have him understand the nutritional implications of what he is eating. Being an omnivore safely is also quite difficult.
jsdalton 17y ago
Sorry, question, why do you say that potatoes have no nutritional value? Everything I have found seems to indicate potatoes are high in nutritional value (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato#Nutrition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato#Nutrition). I have also heard it said that it is possible to subsist entirely on a diet of milk and potatoes, as many Irish families did for quite a long time.
- bobdole2695 17y ago
  Survive does not mean thrive. The Irish have also had a long time to adapt to that diet. They're much less carb sensitive than others. Hence the difference between people from cultures who've eaten a traditionally low-carb diet vs those eating a high-carb diet. Native Americans suffer greatly, but those who traditionally farmed (Asians who eat rice for example) are healthy.

xiaoma 17y ago

Then why are rural Chinese who live off of a rice and noodle based diet thin, while westerners who eat far more protein and fat are enormous? Measured against GDP, countries in which rice-based diets are common (Japan, China, Korea, Thailand, etc...) have very thin, very long lived people compared with the protein crazed areas such as the US, UK, Australia, Canada. Honestly, the only place I hear this carbohydrate-bashing crap is in English language news from places filled with fat people.

pelle 17y ago
According to UCSF's Lustig from "Sugar: The Bitter Truth" video in Lionhearts post it's because they don't consume hardly any fructose. I do believe though that urban Chinese and Japanese are experiencing the same health issues we are here due to increased fructose consumption. Traditional Inuit diets consist of 0 carbohydrates and is very high in fat. They had very low levels of obesity, heart disease and diabetes being unknown.
- xiaoma 17y ago
  First of all, SE Asians have had access to a great deal of fruit for millenia, and rural Chinese are no exception. Secondly, Inuit are a very poor group to try to make your point with: "Inuit Greenlanders, who historically have had limited access to fruits and vegetables, have the worst longevity statistics in North America. Research from the past and present shows that they die on the average about 10 years younger and have a higher rate of cancer than the overall Canadian population" http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/diet-myths-do-primitive-peoples-really-live-longer.html http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/diet-myths-do-primitive... Edit: I don't doubt that highly processed foods that are full of fructose are dangerous. Of course eating a banana is different from getting the same amount of fructose by drinking soda.