4 ms·

Your argument makes no sense: the people control everything in a democracy, literally, by voting for their representation in government.

jaggederest 11y ago
How well does that representation actually fulfill the wishes of their constituency as a whole, let alone any individual voter? That's the point - by being representative with no accountability, there's only the binary ability to hire or fire with no ability to manage.
- zzalpha 11y ago
  How well does that representation actually fulfill the wishes of their constituency as a whole, let alone any individual voter? Yeah yeah yeah, being cynical about democracy is cool, blah blah blah. I suppose you should, what, just burn the motherf*cker down and be done with it, then? You know, in 50 years the GOP will be able to look back and point to one of their most brilliant victories of all time: actively sabotaging the activities of government, and then using the results of their very own actions to convince the electorate that government doesn't work and cannot represent them, despite the fact that they got themselves elected into the very system they claim to despise. It's utterly brilliant. "Starve-the-beast" neocon tactics taken to a whole new level.
  - ancap 11y ago
    >"Starve-the-beast" neocon tactics taken to a whole new level. I'm not sure you know what a "neocon" is. Neocons derived from Trotskyism and are found in both major U.S. political parties. Neoconservatism has done more to expand government than perhaps any other ideology present in American politics. >actively sabotaging the activities of government, and then using the results of their very own actions to convince the electorate that government doesn't work and cannot represent them, despite the fact that they got themselves elected into the very system they claim to despise. Ironically that strategy sounds a lot like a strategy that's been deployed by progressives. If you look at some of the most heavily regulated sectors of the economy--healthcare, banking, housing, wall street, etc--those are the same areas which progressives hold up as free market failures.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > How well does that representation actually fulfill the wishes of their constituency as a whole, let alone any individual voter? Varies considerably between things which get lumped together as representative democracies, from very poorly in systems like the US's which feature a strong duopoly, to very well in many modern multiparty systems. (More detail in, among other places, Lijphart's Patterns of Democracy.)
lawnchair_larry 11y ago
I wonder what country that applies to. Certainly not any that I'm familiar with.
eip 11y ago
"Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without."
zardo 11y ago
Do you feel like you have $8k worth of influence over your share of the US budget? What about Bill Gates or Charles Koch, do you think they have about $8k worth of influence?
pan69 11y ago
That just sounds very naive. In theory you're right, but in theory Karl Marx's communism sounds pretty good as well. They way you describe it is not how it works in the real world, unfortunately.

jaggederest 11y ago

How well does that representation actually fulfill the wishes of their constituency as a whole, let alone any individual voter? That's the point - by being representative with no accountability, there's only the binary ability to hire or fire with no ability to manage.

zzalpha 11y ago
How well does that representation actually fulfill the wishes of their constituency as a whole, let alone any individual voter? Yeah yeah yeah, being cynical about democracy is cool, blah blah blah. I suppose you should, what, just burn the motherf*cker down and be done with it, then? You know, in 50 years the GOP will be able to look back and point to one of their most brilliant victories of all time: actively sabotaging the activities of government, and then using the results of their very own actions to convince the electorate that government doesn't work and cannot represent them, despite the fact that they got themselves elected into the very system they claim to despise. It's utterly brilliant. "Starve-the-beast" neocon tactics taken to a whole new level.
- ancap 11y ago
  >"Starve-the-beast" neocon tactics taken to a whole new level. I'm not sure you know what a "neocon" is. Neocons derived from Trotskyism and are found in both major U.S. political parties. Neoconservatism has done more to expand government than perhaps any other ideology present in American politics. >actively sabotaging the activities of government, and then using the results of their very own actions to convince the electorate that government doesn't work and cannot represent them, despite the fact that they got themselves elected into the very system they claim to despise. Ironically that strategy sounds a lot like a strategy that's been deployed by progressives. If you look at some of the most heavily regulated sectors of the economy--healthcare, banking, housing, wall street, etc--those are the same areas which progressives hold up as free market failures.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> How well does that representation actually fulfill the wishes of their constituency as a whole, let alone any individual voter? Varies considerably between things which get lumped together as representative democracies, from very poorly in systems like the US's which feature a strong duopoly, to very well in many modern multiparty systems. (More detail in, among other places, Lijphart's Patterns of Democracy.)

lawnchair_larry 11y ago

I wonder what country that applies to. Certainly not any that I'm familiar with.

eip 11y ago

"Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without."

zardo 11y ago

Do you feel like you have $8k worth of influence over your share of the US budget? What about Bill Gates or Charles Koch, do you think they have about $8k worth of influence?

pan69 11y ago

That just sounds very naive. In theory you're right, but in theory Karl Marx's communism sounds pretty good as well. They way you describe it is not how it works in the real world, unfortunately.