6 ms·

I find "Librarians in uproar" a wonderful oxymoron.

by nsns 11y ago

sliverstorm 11y ago
It's not an oxymoron so much as the sort of thing Monty Python could have done a great sketch about :)
- monroepe 11y ago
  Makes me chuckle just thinking of the potential.
eli 11y ago
It's amusing choice of phrase, but librarians have been very vocal on privacy and civil rights historically.
- flashman 11y ago
  And yet, I've never heard librarians question whether they should be retaining borrower records. If I don't trust the government not to abuse those records, why would I trust some other group of civil servants? Why do librarians still need to know I borrowed a book more than, say, a few days after I return it? If they need analytics, why can't they anonymise the borrower ID?
  - dalke 11y ago
    > I've never heard librarians question whether they should be retaining borrower records. It is the ALA policy that such records should regularly be purged from the system. For example, quoting from http://www.ala.org/Template.cfm?Section=interpretations&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=34114 http://www.ala.org/Template.cfm?Section=interpretations&Temp... : > It is the responsibility of library staff to destroy information in confidential or privacy protected records in order to protect from unauthorized disclosure. Information that should be regularly purged or shredded includes personally identifiable information on library resource use, material circulation history, and security / surveillance tapes and logs. You can see some of the effects of this policy at http://ask.metafilter.com/228587/What-are-the-negative-results-of-purging-library-records http://ask.metafilter.com/228587/What-are-the-negative-resul... , regarding how some libraries purge their records more frequently, as part of the opposition to section 215 of the Patriot Act: > The library I worked at would delete the record of what a patron borrowed as soon as the return is processed. ... > Libraries have long purged patron records Or from http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2003-07-03/news/0307030274_1_library-records-larger-libraries-largest-library-systems http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2003-07-03/news/030703027... : > Because of space limits, the Chicago Public Library, one of the largest library systems in the country, long has purged unnecessary circulation records each day and expunges Internet caches every 30 minutes, said spokeswoman Margot Holland. ... > For years, Skokie's library has purged records on borrowed materials once they're returned. Recently, it installed software to delete records of Internet use. ... > Sarah Meisels, Wheaton's library director, noted that Wheaton for years has purged circulation records as soon as they are no longer needed, making it practically impossible to comply with the Patriot Act. > In part because the Patriot Act is so rarely invoked, and also because libraries historically have gone to lengths to preserve patrons' privacy, allowing for the act is almost a moot point, Meisels said. You say you've "never heard librarians question whether they should be retaining borrower records." How much have you listened to libraries talk about their retention policies to know if they have been saying anything? Bear in mind also that in the US something like 48 of the states have special privacy laws for library records.
paulgb 11y ago
"WHAT DO WE WANT?" "Shhhhhhhhh"
- hoodoof 11y ago
  You sir, are a genius.
sageikosa 11y ago
Japanese librarians at that. Seriously, I am married to a librarian. Since it's a service sector job (and often a government one at that), they tend to be in uproar in private. That they are in public is good policy in this regard; lest they lose patronage as confidence in the confidentiality of their patrons knowledge exploration is diminished.
- greggman 11y ago
  Just an FYI but the Japanese take their privacy far more serious than many in the west are used to Examples: Check Japanese Facebook accounts. 99% of them have no pictures of themselves nor is their profile pic a picture of themselves Japanese don't use selfie sticks to take pictures to brag. They use them to not have to ask a stranger to take their picture. See paragraph above In Japanese law it is illegal to take pictures of people in public without their permission. Not enforced for crowds but it is the law Trade shows booths will often have "no pictures" signs which are respected in Japan and would be ignored I most western countries Nearly all hotels in Japan have porn but you can pay for it by using a cash based vending machine in the hallway. It gives you a card with a code you type into the tv. It therefore doesn't show up on your credit card or hotel receipt You have always been able to buy almost anything on the Internet with cash in Japan. You order and choose to pay with one of the many 3rd party payment systems. You're given a code. You go to the nearest convenience store and use a machine there to print out a barcode page (or print it yourself). You hand it to the clerk who scans it and takes your money. The item is now paid for. The merchant knows what you ordered but the payment company has no info on you. Japan was the only country to get in a tizzy over google street view issues. I bring all those up just to point out that the Japanese have a vastly different attitude toward privacy
stephaniepier 11y ago
I can assure you this is an issue librarians feel very strongly about. I've worked at a number of libraries and all of them would only retain borrowing records if the patron requested it.
ohyes 11y ago
librarians are very vocal about privacy and freedom of expression issues. This does not surprise me at all.
lazyant 11y ago
They were one of the first in the post-9/11 US to denounce government agencies getting data of library users, I remember the FBI first denying it, now after all we know about government surveillance is small potatoes.

I find "Librarians in uproar" a wonderful oxymoron.

by nsns 11y ago

I find "Librarians in uproar" a wonderful oxymoron.

sliverstorm 11y ago

It's not an oxymoron so much as the sort of thing Monty Python could have done a great sketch about :)

monroepe 11y ago
Makes me chuckle just thinking of the potential.

eli 11y ago

It's amusing choice of phrase, but librarians have been very vocal on privacy and civil rights historically.

flashman 11y ago
And yet, I've never heard librarians question whether they should be retaining borrower records. If I don't trust the government not to abuse those records, why would I trust some other group of civil servants? Why do librarians still need to know I borrowed a book more than, say, a few days after I return it? If they need analytics, why can't they anonymise the borrower ID?
- dalke 11y ago
  > I've never heard librarians question whether they should be retaining borrower records. It is the ALA policy that such records should regularly be purged from the system. For example, quoting from http://www.ala.org/Template.cfm?Section=interpretations&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=34114 http://www.ala.org/Template.cfm?Section=interpretations&Temp... : > It is the responsibility of library staff to destroy information in confidential or privacy protected records in order to protect from unauthorized disclosure. Information that should be regularly purged or shredded includes personally identifiable information on library resource use, material circulation history, and security / surveillance tapes and logs. You can see some of the effects of this policy at http://ask.metafilter.com/228587/What-are-the-negative-results-of-purging-library-records http://ask.metafilter.com/228587/What-are-the-negative-resul... , regarding how some libraries purge their records more frequently, as part of the opposition to section 215 of the Patriot Act: > The library I worked at would delete the record of what a patron borrowed as soon as the return is processed. ... > Libraries have long purged patron records Or from http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2003-07-03/news/0307030274_1_library-records-larger-libraries-largest-library-systems http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2003-07-03/news/030703027... : > Because of space limits, the Chicago Public Library, one of the largest library systems in the country, long has purged unnecessary circulation records each day and expunges Internet caches every 30 minutes, said spokeswoman Margot Holland. ... > For years, Skokie's library has purged records on borrowed materials once they're returned. Recently, it installed software to delete records of Internet use. ... > Sarah Meisels, Wheaton's library director, noted that Wheaton for years has purged circulation records as soon as they are no longer needed, making it practically impossible to comply with the Patriot Act. > In part because the Patriot Act is so rarely invoked, and also because libraries historically have gone to lengths to preserve patrons' privacy, allowing for the act is almost a moot point, Meisels said. You say you've "never heard librarians question whether they should be retaining borrower records." How much have you listened to libraries talk about their retention policies to know if they have been saying anything? Bear in mind also that in the US something like 48 of the states have special privacy laws for library records.

paulgb 11y ago

"WHAT DO WE WANT?" "Shhhhhhhhh"

hoodoof 11y ago
You sir, are a genius.

sageikosa 11y ago

Japanese librarians at that. Seriously, I am married to a librarian. Since it's a service sector job (and often a government one at that), they tend to be in uproar in private. That they are in public is good policy in this regard; lest they lose patronage as confidence in the confidentiality of their patrons knowledge exploration is diminished.

greggman 11y ago
Just an FYI but the Japanese take their privacy far more serious than many in the west are used to Examples: Check Japanese Facebook accounts. 99% of them have no pictures of themselves nor is their profile pic a picture of themselves Japanese don't use selfie sticks to take pictures to brag. They use them to not have to ask a stranger to take their picture. See paragraph above In Japanese law it is illegal to take pictures of people in public without their permission. Not enforced for crowds but it is the law Trade shows booths will often have "no pictures" signs which are respected in Japan and would be ignored I most western countries Nearly all hotels in Japan have porn but you can pay for it by using a cash based vending machine in the hallway. It gives you a card with a code you type into the tv. It therefore doesn't show up on your credit card or hotel receipt You have always been able to buy almost anything on the Internet with cash in Japan. You order and choose to pay with one of the many 3rd party payment systems. You're given a code. You go to the nearest convenience store and use a machine there to print out a barcode page (or print it yourself). You hand it to the clerk who scans it and takes your money. The item is now paid for. The merchant knows what you ordered but the payment company has no info on you. Japan was the only country to get in a tizzy over google street view issues. I bring all those up just to point out that the Japanese have a vastly different attitude toward privacy

stephaniepier 11y ago

I can assure you this is an issue librarians feel very strongly about. I've worked at a number of libraries and all of them would only retain borrowing records if the patron requested it.

ohyes 11y ago

librarians are very vocal about privacy and freedom of expression issues. This does not surprise me at all.

lazyant 11y ago

They were one of the first in the post-9/11 US to denounce government agencies getting data of library users, I remember the FBI first denying it, now after all we know about government surveillance is small potatoes.