5 ms·

This sort of mindset only works when rich people are not the ones making laws in the first place. The law is not independent of the rich - they can influence th

This sort of mindset only works when rich people are not the ones making laws in the first place. The law is not independent of the rich - they can influence the laws they follow. That's why it is a problem.

vezzy-fnord 11y ago
If that is the case, then in order to be consistent, one would have to celebrate subverting the tax laws made by the rich (even if done by one of them).
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
and what happens when we let the "poor" make laws? Endless welfare, unaffordable backroom union deals, massive corruption, massive taxation to move money from the uppers to the lowers, etc. Just visit Chicago or Greece to see what happens when the power shifts to the unions instead of companies. Also, 'rich' is often a placeholder for companies. Companies want to be successful. That means compromise in a million different ways as bold moves can lead to bankruptcy, boycotts, competitors coming in and taking your market share, etc. Companies have an incentive to play ball as they want to survive and be competitive. Government, on the other hand, survives by default and doesn't have to be efficient at all. The reality is that good government works when we have all players mobilized and part of the process. Its incredibly cynical to just claim the rich make laws to benefit themselves, especially considering that the US runs on a popular democracy model to the point of directly electing the highest office, which is unheard of in parliamentary democracies. The rich are vastly outnumbered. Perhaps you should consider that a lot of regular people vote in policies that are pro-business because they want jobs and wealth in their area. Not everyone can become a silicon valley hotshot or NYC finance banker. Those 'red state' policies you hate so much bring in employers, jobs, create wealth, etc. We tried communism. Turns out it didnt work. In fact it led to the deaths of 50-100m people and created autocracies, war, political persecution, poverty, and misery on a level unimaginable before. My friends here in Chicago are all looking for new jobs because a couple employers have already left and many are planning on leaving as the tax level and anti-business attitudes here are killing the economy. This is a city of 3m people with a $550b GDP and we have a junk credit rating and no one knows how to pay off these fatcat union pensions. So yeah, be careful what you wish for. When the average guy has political power, he just writes checks for his friends at the cost of the taxpayer and the local economy. Without the business owning class calling some of the shots, there's really no incentive to do anything right as you can just keep dipping into the public treasury and when that runs out just keep raising taxes per the Chicago model. Which inevitably culminates into a Detriot-like bankruptcy.
- littletimmy 11y ago
  A transfer of wealth from the upper class to the lower class is the price we pay for civilization. No welfare to the poor means they have no incentive not to kill you.
  - Nrsolis 11y ago
    AYFKM? If you kill all the rich people and take their money, who is going to be left to organize businesses or produce the kinds of inventions that benefit society? The "next-richest" people? A society that demonizes its most successful members is a doomed one.
    - littletimmy 11y ago
      Inventions can be made through state grants (a lot of innovation is already funded by state grants like NIH). Who told you rich people finance innovation? A society that demonizes its poorest is a doomed one.
      - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
        >state grants like NIH The PhD's, researchers, and managers at Federal organizations make salaries that would classy them as "rich" in this scenario. Just because something is publicly funded doesn't mean its thrifty, efficient, or "for the people." If anything, considering what we know of how governments all over the world work, its more than likely public research and programs are wasteful and corrupt compared to private equivalents.

vezzy-fnord 11y ago

If that is the case, then in order to be consistent, one would have to celebrate subverting the tax laws made by the rich (even if done by one of them).

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

and what happens when we let the "poor" make laws? Endless welfare, unaffordable backroom union deals, massive corruption, massive taxation to move money from the uppers to the lowers, etc. Just visit Chicago or Greece to see what happens when the power shifts to the unions instead of companies. Also, 'rich' is often a placeholder for companies. Companies want to be successful. That means compromise in a million different ways as bold moves can lead to bankruptcy, boycotts, competitors coming in and taking your market share, etc. Companies have an incentive to play ball as they want to survive and be competitive. Government, on the other hand, survives by default and doesn't have to be efficient at all. The reality is that good government works when we have all players mobilized and part of the process. Its incredibly cynical to just claim the rich make laws to benefit themselves, especially considering that the US runs on a popular democracy model to the point of directly electing the highest office, which is unheard of in parliamentary democracies. The rich are vastly outnumbered. Perhaps you should consider that a lot of regular people vote in policies that are pro-business because they want jobs and wealth in their area. Not everyone can become a silicon valley hotshot or NYC finance banker. Those 'red state' policies you hate so much bring in employers, jobs, create wealth, etc. We tried communism. Turns out it didnt work. In fact it led to the deaths of 50-100m people and created autocracies, war, political persecution, poverty, and misery on a level unimaginable before. My friends here in Chicago are all looking for new jobs because a couple employers have already left and many are planning on leaving as the tax level and anti-business attitudes here are killing the economy. This is a city of 3m people with a $550b GDP and we have a junk credit rating and no one knows how to pay off these fatcat union pensions. So yeah, be careful what you wish for. When the average guy has political power, he just writes checks for his friends at the cost of the taxpayer and the local economy. Without the business owning class calling some of the shots, there's really no incentive to do anything right as you can just keep dipping into the public treasury and when that runs out just keep raising taxes per the Chicago model. Which inevitably culminates into a Detriot-like bankruptcy.

littletimmy 11y ago
A transfer of wealth from the upper class to the lower class is the price we pay for civilization. No welfare to the poor means they have no incentive not to kill you.
- Nrsolis 11y ago
  AYFKM? If you kill all the rich people and take their money, who is going to be left to organize businesses or produce the kinds of inventions that benefit society? The "next-richest" people? A society that demonizes its most successful members is a doomed one.
  - littletimmy 11y ago
    Inventions can be made through state grants (a lot of innovation is already funded by state grants like NIH). Who told you rich people finance innovation? A society that demonizes its poorest is a doomed one.
    - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
      >state grants like NIH The PhD's, researchers, and managers at Federal organizations make salaries that would classy them as "rich" in this scenario. Just because something is publicly funded doesn't mean its thrifty, efficient, or "for the people." If anything, considering what we know of how governments all over the world work, its more than likely public research and programs are wasteful and corrupt compared to private equivalents.