4 ms·

Your kids first. Studies have shown time and time again that despite all those "Is it worth it?" talk, having a college degree in anything still equals better e

Your kids first. Studies have shown time and time again that despite all those "Is it worth it?" talk, having a college degree in anything still equals better earning prospects over a lifetime. Everyone I've talked to who proposed "fewer people should go to college" / "more people should go to trade schools" has at least one kid in or graduated from a 4 year degree program. So when people say "fewer people should go to college," I hear, "other people's kids should earn less so my kid doesn't." It's time we took a hard look at how we pay for college and its costs, most assuredly. But it's not time to discourage people from getting an education, especially with all the predictions about automation.

aantix 11y ago
The colleges are taking a disproportionate amount of credit for kids that probably already had the gumption to do what it takes to make a higher salary. I remember a study from a Malcolm gladwrll piece where they compared the earnings from students who could have gone to UPenn, but opted to go to the state school, Penn St. The result, the state kids earnings were on par with the Ivy League School kids.
- intopieces 11y ago
  >The colleges are taking a disproportionate amount of credit for kids that probably already had the gumption to do what it takes to make a higher salary. I'd like to know why you think that. When the job application says you must have a bachelor's degree to be considered, gumption doesn't enter into it. >The result, the state kids earnings were on par with the Ivy League School kids. State school graduates earning a similar wage to Ivy League graduates doesn't extrapolate to trade school graduates earning as much as state school graduates. In any case, the hyper-focus on earnings is misplaced. It says nothing of the intangible value of an education and the four year college experience, nor the exposure to various other pursuits that influence a person's entire life afterwards.
  - xiaoma 11y ago
    >I'd like to know why you think that. When the job application says you must have a bachelor's degree to be considered, gumption doesn't enter into it. Yeah it does. Many of the jobs I've gotten have had various requirements I didn't meet, including that particular one. Pretty much the only truly inflexible sector I've encountered is government. Even there, it's amazing what can be done if the right people want it done. I think getting a degree was one of the poorer financial decisions of my life and not that great in terms of educational outcomes either. Degrees rarely imply the kind of "intangible value" you're talking of. TLDR; education > schooling
    - intopieces 11y ago
      I think you're an exceptional case. Take a look at the Earnings and unemployment rates by educational attainment: http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm If most of these college graduates could have made it where they are without a degree, wouldn't this count be a little more even? The drastic difference appears somewhat artificial. I agree that a person doesn't "need" a college degree to succeed -- but I think it's fair to say it helps quite a bit.
      - xiaoma 11y ago
        Earnings are difficult to compare due to the selection bias in admissions. Even if that weren't the case, you'd have to factor in the compounded interest from all of the money spent on schooling as well as that of the money not earned during those four years. Additionally, there's the cost of delaying and/or slowing one's education while spending those years schooling (which generally moves at a glacial pace). There are some cases in which the schooling truly is worth the cost and yields exceptional results for those admitted (as opposed to only admitting those who would be exceptional regardless). Those cases are rare and getting rarer.
grillvogel 11y ago
i would suspect most people skilled in a trade would earn more than the typical non STEM college graduate.

aantix 11y ago

The colleges are taking a disproportionate amount of credit for kids that probably already had the gumption to do what it takes to make a higher salary. I remember a study from a Malcolm gladwrll piece where they compared the earnings from students who could have gone to UPenn, but opted to go to the state school, Penn St. The result, the state kids earnings were on par with the Ivy League School kids.

intopieces 11y ago
>The colleges are taking a disproportionate amount of credit for kids that probably already had the gumption to do what it takes to make a higher salary. I'd like to know why you think that. When the job application says you must have a bachelor's degree to be considered, gumption doesn't enter into it. >The result, the state kids earnings were on par with the Ivy League School kids. State school graduates earning a similar wage to Ivy League graduates doesn't extrapolate to trade school graduates earning as much as state school graduates. In any case, the hyper-focus on earnings is misplaced. It says nothing of the intangible value of an education and the four year college experience, nor the exposure to various other pursuits that influence a person's entire life afterwards.
- xiaoma 11y ago
  >I'd like to know why you think that. When the job application says you must have a bachelor's degree to be considered, gumption doesn't enter into it. Yeah it does. Many of the jobs I've gotten have had various requirements I didn't meet, including that particular one. Pretty much the only truly inflexible sector I've encountered is government. Even there, it's amazing what can be done if the right people want it done. I think getting a degree was one of the poorer financial decisions of my life and not that great in terms of educational outcomes either. Degrees rarely imply the kind of "intangible value" you're talking of. TLDR; education > schooling
  - intopieces 11y ago
    I think you're an exceptional case. Take a look at the Earnings and unemployment rates by educational attainment: http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm If most of these college graduates could have made it where they are without a degree, wouldn't this count be a little more even? The drastic difference appears somewhat artificial. I agree that a person doesn't "need" a college degree to succeed -- but I think it's fair to say it helps quite a bit.
    - xiaoma 11y ago
      Earnings are difficult to compare due to the selection bias in admissions. Even if that weren't the case, you'd have to factor in the compounded interest from all of the money spent on schooling as well as that of the money not earned during those four years. Additionally, there's the cost of delaying and/or slowing one's education while spending those years schooling (which generally moves at a glacial pace). There are some cases in which the schooling truly is worth the cost and yields exceptional results for those admitted (as opposed to only admitting those who would be exceptional regardless). Those cases are rare and getting rarer.

grillvogel 11y ago

i would suspect most people skilled in a trade would earn more than the typical non STEM college graduate.