5 ms·

I think the fairly simple answer is that you don't stack them or allow for any interference at all. If your kite goes up to 250m and has a 1km tether you space

I think the fairly simple answer is that you don't stack them or allow for any interference at all. If your kite goes up to 250m and has a 1km tether you space all your launchers on a 1km "radius" hexagonal grid. Your wind farm takes up more space but at first that's no problem at all. You could probably make it work at a 500m hexagonal grid but there's a small amount of risk associated there. Ultimately though one of the benefits of these things is that when they're not in use they're stowed. And that means people might be a lot less NIMBY about them. And then you might never really need to worry about all the complexity. It's probably a pipe dream to suggest that people would be accepting of them, but stranger things have happened.

jacquesm 11y ago
> I think the fairly simple answer is that you don't stack them or allow for any interference at all. If your kite goes up to 250m and has a 1km tether you space all your launchers on a 1km "radius" hexagonal grid. That would rule out a great many locations. > Your wind farm takes up more space but at first that's no problem at all. A regular wind turbine has a small base and has only one active component. To have a more complex set-up with many more moving parts including the nacelle itself moving around in 3 dimensions is a significant complication that should be offset by a gain, it should not lead to an extra loss. > Ultimately though one of the benefits of these things is that when they're not in use they're stowed. Windmills are sited such that they are rarely idle, it happens but that's money being lost and a very large amount of the pre-work in siting a wind power park is to make sure that idle time is as low as possible. Yes, it is nice they're stowed when not in use but that's a situation you want to avoid. > It's probably a pipe dream to suggest that people would be accepting of them, but stranger things have happened. If the windmills around here are any indication: prior to the installation there is a lot of friction, reaching a peak at the moment the foundations are poured. Then there is a kind of reluctant acceptance and a decade later people say they would miss the machines if they disappeared. It is an odd progression, I guess people are simply against a change for something unknown.
- cinquemb 11y ago
  >That would rule out a great many locations. I wonder if you can have a portable system deployable during hurricanes?
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    Hurricanes are when you want your system stowed. The power available from wind goes up as the cube of the windspeed. So you go from generating lots of power and 'doing ok' to catastrophic failure and 'bits and pieces' over one doubling. An 8 MW output turbine that suddenly has to deal with 100 MW had better be shut-down and furled well before that moment arrives. Otherwise you can bring your vacuum cleaner and a mop. There is at this moment no blade material strong enough to deal with hurricane level winds while operating at rated speed. It works like this: Wind is moving air and moving air has mass. So if you move that mass twice as fast the energy that it contains is e=mv^2 the square of the energy that it contained before impacting on the blades. But it is also more air, twice as much air will pass through the rotor blades in the same amount of time, so you get to double again. Hence the factor of 8. Most windmills will shut down well before they reach the danger point, they simply furl their blades to ride out the storm. They will track the wind even in this state because if the wind would hit the rotor at an angle that could start up the rotor again and then all hell will break loose because the brake will not be able to withstand the rotor once it reaches a certain speed, it will simply burn up and from there to the bits and pieces stage it is less than a few minutes. There are some youtube movies about wind turbines that fail to switch to safe mode before a storm hits, not pretty.
    - cinquemb 11y ago
      I'm asking about the about the kite turbines. >I think the fairly simple answer is that you don't stack them or allow for any interference at all. If your kite goes up to 250m and has a 1km tether you space all your launchers on a 1km "radius" hexagonal grid. Your wind farm takes up more space but at first that's no problem at all. You could probably make it work at a 500m hexagonal grid but there's a small amount of risk associated there.

jacquesm 11y ago

> I think the fairly simple answer is that you don't stack them or allow for any interference at all. If your kite goes up to 250m and has a 1km tether you space all your launchers on a 1km "radius" hexagonal grid. That would rule out a great many locations. > Your wind farm takes up more space but at first that's no problem at all. A regular wind turbine has a small base and has only one active component. To have a more complex set-up with many more moving parts including the nacelle itself moving around in 3 dimensions is a significant complication that should be offset by a gain, it should not lead to an extra loss. > Ultimately though one of the benefits of these things is that when they're not in use they're stowed. Windmills are sited such that they are rarely idle, it happens but that's money being lost and a very large amount of the pre-work in siting a wind power park is to make sure that idle time is as low as possible. Yes, it is nice they're stowed when not in use but that's a situation you want to avoid. > It's probably a pipe dream to suggest that people would be accepting of them, but stranger things have happened. If the windmills around here are any indication: prior to the installation there is a lot of friction, reaching a peak at the moment the foundations are poured. Then there is a kind of reluctant acceptance and a decade later people say they would miss the machines if they disappeared. It is an odd progression, I guess people are simply against a change for something unknown.

cinquemb 11y ago
>That would rule out a great many locations. I wonder if you can have a portable system deployable during hurricanes?
- jacquesm 11y ago
  Hurricanes are when you want your system stowed. The power available from wind goes up as the cube of the windspeed. So you go from generating lots of power and 'doing ok' to catastrophic failure and 'bits and pieces' over one doubling. An 8 MW output turbine that suddenly has to deal with 100 MW had better be shut-down and furled well before that moment arrives. Otherwise you can bring your vacuum cleaner and a mop. There is at this moment no blade material strong enough to deal with hurricane level winds while operating at rated speed. It works like this: Wind is moving air and moving air has mass. So if you move that mass twice as fast the energy that it contains is e=mv^2 the square of the energy that it contained before impacting on the blades. But it is also more air, twice as much air will pass through the rotor blades in the same amount of time, so you get to double again. Hence the factor of 8. Most windmills will shut down well before they reach the danger point, they simply furl their blades to ride out the storm. They will track the wind even in this state because if the wind would hit the rotor at an angle that could start up the rotor again and then all hell will break loose because the brake will not be able to withstand the rotor once it reaches a certain speed, it will simply burn up and from there to the bits and pieces stage it is less than a few minutes. There are some youtube movies about wind turbines that fail to switch to safe mode before a storm hits, not pretty.
  - cinquemb 11y ago
    I'm asking about the about the kite turbines. >I think the fairly simple answer is that you don't stack them or allow for any interference at all. If your kite goes up to 250m and has a 1km tether you space all your launchers on a 1km "radius" hexagonal grid. Your wind farm takes up more space but at first that's no problem at all. You could probably make it work at a 500m hexagonal grid but there's a small amount of risk associated there.