5 ms·

Amazon Cracks Open the Kindle

88 points by jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

gcheong 17y ago
This is great news. I've been hoping for an SDK ever since I got a Kindle DX as a birthday present.
ryanwaggoner 17y ago
Can someone venture some guesses as to what types of apps will be created? That screen seems like a terribly limiting factor for apps...
- scscsc 17y ago
  Non-realtime society games, learning foreign language kits (the kindle has audio output), a programming language (+ perhaps eulerprojet like contests). I was really excited about this one until I figured they haven't read RFC 5322 on email address validation since they can't validate mine: first.last+kindle@gmail.com.
- gcheong 17y ago
  I guess I'm not very creative, but one of the first thoughts to pop in my head was "I would really like to have a day planner on this thing".
- gcv 17y ago
  Plenty of apps don't need rapid refresh, or particularly fancy graphics. Weather apps, stock tickers, crossword puzzles, Sudoku, choose-your-own-adventure type games (even something like the old Adventure), a note taker, shopping list, fitness tracker... Combine these with the Kindle's wireless cellular link, add a little imagination, and I feel it has potential.
  - jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
    The 15 cents per megabyte charge could be limiting at first. I don't know what an application might use and how frequently, so it might not be a concern at all. If it is, i'm sure the pricing will eventually go down to a number that is so low that it no longer is a concern.
    - melling 17y ago
      Let's hope they put wifi in the next gen Kindle's. It's crazy that they left it out.
      - sliverstorm 17y ago
        I absolutely love WiFi, and wish every mobile device had it, but I can easily see how it would appear useless in their original vision for the Kindle. Anything that is useless, is of course cut for cost reasons. Remember, the 3G modem really was only used in the first place so you can seamlessly buy books from anywhere, on the go. Anywhere there is WiFi, there is almost always 3G/1Rtt, and WiFi is more complicated for the uneducated consumer than an on-off connection as simple as cell phones. All the user even needs to know with cell phones is "I have reception" or "I don't", instead of signal strengths of different networks, what key & kind of key to use, what networks are not safe, and so on. Let's not forget one of the common reasons for hybrid 3G/WiFi usage is to avoid billing on the cellular network. Notice, that problem is gone for the end user with the Kindle.
        pmjordan 17y ago
        Plus, I gather that public Wifi coverage in the US is pretty good. Elsewhere, not so much. Almost all publicly accessible access points in Europe aren't free and cost more than 3G data these days. (and yes, I do think that's completely ridiculous)
  - mcobrien 17y ago
    Considering developers will pay for app downloads themselves, it seems likely that only wifi access will be available. That's going to limit a lot of the kinds of apps that are popular on the iPhone. Why even install a wifi-only weather app when you can use the (experimental) web browser that always works?
    - utnick 17y ago
      I don't think Kindles have wifi... I would guess amazon would only allow non-networked apps
- Herring 17y ago
  Hopefully some sort of folder system, since it seems Amazon can't do it.
- rksprst 17y ago
  I'd love to play chess on it + cross word puzzles.
- sliverstorm 17y ago
  Am I the only one who is dreaming of an email client? webmail doesn't do it for me. A real client would be amazing. Seriously though, let's consider. I hear of tons of apps that are really clever on the iPhone store, and many of them do not use the camera, gfx, gps or accelerometer. It's true the iPhone has more computing power, but both have 3G. My mind's not in a state right now to do a real comparison, but in my opinion, quite a number of the clever and/or useful iPhone apps I've seen could be ported to the Kindle. (this is not of course to say that's what should be done, or even that would be the limit- after all, Kindle has a much larger screen- just as an idea of the spread!)
  - sliverstorm 17y ago
    Actually, I have just realized that the Kindle 2 has a faster CPU than the iPhone 3G by a good 100MHz (not 3GS)!
- paulgerhardt 17y ago
  I was on the verge of "jailbreaking" my kindle just so I could make a more effective Instapaper client.
- netcan 17y ago
  My guess is anything that has a lot to do with reading, since that is where the screen is actually an advantage, not just a tolerable disadvantage. Interactive books are an obvious thought. Interactive maps might also be useful.
- romland 17y ago
  MUDs! :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD
- jgamman 17y ago
  scientific literature for researchers
  - chris11 17y ago
    Support for LaTeX would be awesome.
- ajaypopat 17y ago
  Test prep software like vocabulary flashcards might be useful.
jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
I think between the Kindle, Nook (it runs android), and the Apple Tablet, we're going to see some of the next great publishing companies emerge along with the really smart dinosaurs evolve. "Print Content" will no longer just be words on a page, but something interactive that belongs in the 21st century. What if your books/newspapers/magazines were hybrids of software+traditional writing? That thought kind of gives me the chills... in a good way.
- MikeCapone 17y ago
  Yes, and this combined with Amazon's new royalty scheme: http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-amazon-fires-torpedo-at-book-industry-launches-70-kindle-royalty-option-2010-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-amazon-fires-to... Will create really big changes in the publishing industry. I just hope that people outside the U.S. won't have to wait years to benefit from these changes (because of legalities).
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
skywalker 17y ago
"We've heard from lots of developers over the past two years who are excited to build on top of Kindle" So, why didn't they do nothing for two years? One week before Apple supposedly will announce the iTablet, Amazon creates a press release saying a limited beta of the Kindle SDK will start next month! If you are the market leader, why would you wait two years for yours competitors? Doesn't make sense to me.
- grandalf 17y ago
  I get the impression that most product teams at Amazon contain about 5 people. I love Amazon, btw, I just think they keep the teams lean and do amazing things.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - spudlyo 17y ago
    "If a project team can eat more than two pizzas, it's too large." -- Werner Vogels Amazon CTO
  - shpxnvz 17y ago
    If I remember correctly from a visit out there a couple of months ago, they top out at around 12 people on a team (as the other reply mentioned, they're internally referred to as "2-pizza" teams).
- revorad 17y ago
  It seems to me that Amazon likes to do things really thoroughly. They start out by specialising in one thing (selling books) and use the infrastructure to diversify (selling consumer products) and the expertise gained to make new products (AWS). I'm really excited about this, if only to see outspoken Jobs, who rubbishes competition quite easily, pitched against old school Bezos, who refuses to even talk about the competition.
dkokelley 17y ago
I'm excited to see what come of this. Although most of my 'connected' needs are filled by my iPhone, having a comparable substitute on the big, battery-sipping, easy-on-the-eyes screen seems like a good idea. Now if only they would come down in price just a bit...
- Herring 17y ago
  Last I checked they had it refurbished for ~400
  - dkokelley 17y ago
    Oops. I meant to reference the Kindle's price. I already have an iPhone.
    - Herring 17y ago
      Yeah I got that. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0015TCML0/?tag=kwab-20&condition=refurbished http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0015TCML0/?tag=kwab-... Maybe they'll restock soon.
      - dkokelley 17y ago
        Ouch. I would probably only want the 6" version.
zackattack 17y ago
Hopefully it's better-documented than Amazon FPS Subscriptions. :P
waterlesscloud 17y ago
As I'm reading it, they're going to charge 15 cents per megabyte to deliver the app itself to the device. That cost will be deducted from the app price, and the remainder is what will be split 70/30 with developers. They cap over-the-air delivery at 10 meg. Anything over that is downloaded to user's computer, then to kindle via usb. Cumbersome. So you could have up to $1.50 of the app price deducted for delivery fees. Probably not going to settle in on a 99 cent price point...
- mcobrien 17y ago
  Definitely cumbersome, but you'd be hard pressed to find a 99c iPhone app that's 10MB. With the simplicity of typical apps and platform restrictions (black & white!), a lot will fit in the first 1MB.
  - gyardley 17y ago
    Right now two of the top ten paid iPhone apps are both $0.99 and over 10MB. I'm of the impression that this is quite common.
- dagw 17y ago
  I wonder if apps will be allowed to connect to the internet and if so will there be any charges there. If not, the obvious workaround is to write the smallest possible app and then let the app download additional features on the fly as it is used. I'm guessing Amazon have thought of this though and will crack down on it somehow.
  - dagw 17y ago
    Yup, just found the link to Amazons SDK website, and anything over 100KB/month the user will have have to pay for somehow.
ggruschow 17y ago
I really wish that thing had a touchscreen. No pointing device, no scroll wheel, and poor cursor update speed will make the interactions people are used to now impossible. It shuts down its radio all the time right? I assume push notifications are impossible?
davidw 17y ago
I wonder what language/API it uses? Java or C++ are probably safe guesses.
- sliverstorm 17y ago
  I believe Java is out- it uses a ARM11 CPU running Linux, and I am not aware of a commonly available Java for ARM CPU's...? C/C++ would be seem like a good guess (and my personal preference), but on the other hand it might allow lower-level access than they are prepared to give. In reality, anything that compiles on Linux on the ARM processor could be game- python, ruby, c/c++, perl... but, that kind of access is probably just a pipe dream.
  - davidw 17y ago
    > I am not aware of a commonly available Java for ARM CPU' What do you think J2ME runs on?
Tichy 17y ago
I don't have a Kindle yet, so I wonder what the connectivity is like? I think you can't just surf the web with a Kindle, so web applications are out? This news makes me dither between excitement and desperation. Yet another completely different mobile platform to support? Fragmentation is really becoming a problem, web apps seemed like the only hope for a solution... In any case, I suppose it makes sense to wait for the iPad, perhaps we'll think completely different about mobile internet after that.
- Erwin 17y ago
  It has a basic web browser, but for international customers it seems most sites are restricted -- I can only browse Wikipedia (it uses the mobile version, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/ http://en.m.wikipedia.org/ ) I suspect the deals they've had to do with however many 3G provider companies mean more expensive bandwidth outside of US. I'm not sure about Kindle as an app platform; it feels a little too sluggish when the screen needs to be updated. Good enough for going to a new book page, but interactive applications may be difficult (e.g. just moving the cursor around faster leaves a visible trail). Maybe a new generation of the device with faster screen updates (some kind of dual e-ink/OLED screen?) and better keyboard.
- joubert 17y ago
  You can surf the web (it is an experimental feature), but even a basic site like HN renders like crap.
cabalamat 17y ago
If the opening up doesn't include an API that allows me to transfer kindle book files onto my Linux box in a portable, DRM-free format, then for me at least it is worthless and Amazon can throw their kindle on a bonfire.
bioweek 17y ago
Can someone make a PDF reader for the Kindle? It would display PDF's somewhat sanely and it would allow bookmarking and annotations.
- ableal 17y ago
  Besides the one Amazon ships in the latest firmware versions ? ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200324680 http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=2... ) The manuals ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200317150 http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=2... ) seem to say you can bookmark PDF pages, but do not mention clippings or annotations, which are allowed for the mobi/azw default format.
  - bioweek 17y ago
    Yes, besides that one. It seems to completely barf on most PDFs especially multi column ones. I don't recall the bookmarking working. And annoations and clippings are definately not there.
    - ableal 17y ago
      Well, I was looking at the DX manual - I confess I'm waiting to lay my mitts on one, which should be landing in my corner of Europe today. If you're talking of the 6" e-ink screen (I have one of the Hanlin ones, branded BeBook), I do not think there's a good way of reading PDFs "printed" to Letter/A4 on them. (Thus the DX.) (Short, of course, of intelligently reflowing the PDF to a smaller page size - which currently seems to be an opportunity ;-)
- Tichy 17y ago
  I think they forbid "generic readers" as apps.
ralphc 17y ago
What I haven't seen answered is can I develop my own apps for my own Kindle for free? A big factor for me losing interest in iPhone development is having to pay 99$ a year to make apps for myself, that expire in a year.
Tiktaalik 17y ago
I hope this results in a renaissance for interactive fiction (text adventure games).

This is great news. I've been hoping for an SDK ever since I got a Kindle DX as a birthday present.

Can someone venture some guesses as to what types of apps will be created? That screen seems like a terribly limiting factor for apps...

scscsc 17y ago
Non-realtime society games, learning foreign language kits (the kindle has audio output), a programming language (+ perhaps eulerprojet like contests). I was really excited about this one until I figured they haven't read RFC 5322 on email address validation since they can't validate mine: first.last+kindle@gmail.com.
gcheong 17y ago
I guess I'm not very creative, but one of the first thoughts to pop in my head was "I would really like to have a day planner on this thing".
gcv 17y ago
Plenty of apps don't need rapid refresh, or particularly fancy graphics. Weather apps, stock tickers, crossword puzzles, Sudoku, choose-your-own-adventure type games (even something like the old Adventure), a note taker, shopping list, fitness tracker... Combine these with the Kindle's wireless cellular link, add a little imagination, and I feel it has potential.
- jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
  The 15 cents per megabyte charge could be limiting at first. I don't know what an application might use and how frequently, so it might not be a concern at all. If it is, i'm sure the pricing will eventually go down to a number that is so low that it no longer is a concern.
  - melling 17y ago
    Let's hope they put wifi in the next gen Kindle's. It's crazy that they left it out.
    - sliverstorm 17y ago
      I absolutely love WiFi, and wish every mobile device had it, but I can easily see how it would appear useless in their original vision for the Kindle. Anything that is useless, is of course cut for cost reasons. Remember, the 3G modem really was only used in the first place so you can seamlessly buy books from anywhere, on the go. Anywhere there is WiFi, there is almost always 3G/1Rtt, and WiFi is more complicated for the uneducated consumer than an on-off connection as simple as cell phones. All the user even needs to know with cell phones is "I have reception" or "I don't", instead of signal strengths of different networks, what key & kind of key to use, what networks are not safe, and so on. Let's not forget one of the common reasons for hybrid 3G/WiFi usage is to avoid billing on the cellular network. Notice, that problem is gone for the end user with the Kindle.
      - pmjordan 17y ago
        Plus, I gather that public Wifi coverage in the US is pretty good. Elsewhere, not so much. Almost all publicly accessible access points in Europe aren't free and cost more than 3G data these days. (and yes, I do think that's completely ridiculous)
- mcobrien 17y ago
  Considering developers will pay for app downloads themselves, it seems likely that only wifi access will be available. That's going to limit a lot of the kinds of apps that are popular on the iPhone. Why even install a wifi-only weather app when you can use the (experimental) web browser that always works?
  - utnick 17y ago
    I don't think Kindles have wifi... I would guess amazon would only allow non-networked apps
Herring 17y ago
Hopefully some sort of folder system, since it seems Amazon can't do it.
rksprst 17y ago
I'd love to play chess on it + cross word puzzles.
sliverstorm 17y ago
Am I the only one who is dreaming of an email client? webmail doesn't do it for me. A real client would be amazing. Seriously though, let's consider. I hear of tons of apps that are really clever on the iPhone store, and many of them do not use the camera, gfx, gps or accelerometer. It's true the iPhone has more computing power, but both have 3G. My mind's not in a state right now to do a real comparison, but in my opinion, quite a number of the clever and/or useful iPhone apps I've seen could be ported to the Kindle. (this is not of course to say that's what should be done, or even that would be the limit- after all, Kindle has a much larger screen- just as an idea of the spread!)
- sliverstorm 17y ago
  Actually, I have just realized that the Kindle 2 has a faster CPU than the iPhone 3G by a good 100MHz (not 3GS)!
paulgerhardt 17y ago
I was on the verge of "jailbreaking" my kindle just so I could make a more effective Instapaper client.
netcan 17y ago
My guess is anything that has a lot to do with reading, since that is where the screen is actually an advantage, not just a tolerable disadvantage. Interactive books are an obvious thought. Interactive maps might also be useful.
romland 17y ago
MUDs! :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD
jgamman 17y ago
scientific literature for researchers
- chris11 17y ago
  Support for LaTeX would be awesome.
ajaypopat 17y ago
Test prep software like vocabulary flashcards might be useful.

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

I think between the Kindle, Nook (it runs android), and the Apple Tablet, we're going to see some of the next great publishing companies emerge along with the really smart dinosaurs evolve. "Print Content" will no longer just be words on a page, but something interactive that belongs in the 21st century. What if your books/newspapers/magazines were hybrids of software+traditional writing? That thought kind of gives me the chills... in a good way.

MikeCapone 17y ago
Yes, and this combined with Amazon's new royalty scheme: http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-amazon-fires-torpedo-at-book-industry-launches-70-kindle-royalty-option-2010-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-amazon-fires-to... Will create really big changes in the publishing industry. I just hope that people outside the U.S. won't have to wait years to benefit from these changes (because of legalities).

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

skywalker 17y ago

"We've heard from lots of developers over the past two years who are excited to build on top of Kindle" So, why didn't they do nothing for two years? One week before Apple supposedly will announce the iTablet, Amazon creates a press release saying a limited beta of the Kindle SDK will start next month! If you are the market leader, why would you wait two years for yours competitors? Doesn't make sense to me.

grandalf 17y ago
I get the impression that most product teams at Amazon contain about 5 people. I love Amazon, btw, I just think they keep the teams lean and do amazing things.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- spudlyo 17y ago
  "If a project team can eat more than two pizzas, it's too large." -- Werner Vogels Amazon CTO
- shpxnvz 17y ago
  If I remember correctly from a visit out there a couple of months ago, they top out at around 12 people on a team (as the other reply mentioned, they're internally referred to as "2-pizza" teams).
revorad 17y ago
It seems to me that Amazon likes to do things really thoroughly. They start out by specialising in one thing (selling books) and use the infrastructure to diversify (selling consumer products) and the expertise gained to make new products (AWS). I'm really excited about this, if only to see outspoken Jobs, who rubbishes competition quite easily, pitched against old school Bezos, who refuses to even talk about the competition.

dkokelley 17y ago

I'm excited to see what come of this. Although most of my 'connected' needs are filled by my iPhone, having a comparable substitute on the big, battery-sipping, easy-on-the-eyes screen seems like a good idea. Now if only they would come down in price just a bit...

Herring 17y ago
Last I checked they had it refurbished for ~400
- dkokelley 17y ago
  Oops. I meant to reference the Kindle's price. I already have an iPhone.
  - Herring 17y ago
    Yeah I got that. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0015TCML0/?tag=kwab-20&condition=refurbished http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0015TCML0/?tag=kwab-... Maybe they'll restock soon.
    - dkokelley 17y ago
      Ouch. I would probably only want the 6" version.

zackattack 17y ago

Hopefully it's better-documented than Amazon FPS Subscriptions. :P

waterlesscloud 17y ago

As I'm reading it, they're going to charge 15 cents per megabyte to deliver the app itself to the device. That cost will be deducted from the app price, and the remainder is what will be split 70/30 with developers. They cap over-the-air delivery at 10 meg. Anything over that is downloaded to user's computer, then to kindle via usb. Cumbersome. So you could have up to $1.50 of the app price deducted for delivery fees. Probably not going to settle in on a 99 cent price point...

mcobrien 17y ago
Definitely cumbersome, but you'd be hard pressed to find a 99c iPhone app that's 10MB. With the simplicity of typical apps and platform restrictions (black & white!), a lot will fit in the first 1MB.
- gyardley 17y ago
  Right now two of the top ten paid iPhone apps are both $0.99 and over 10MB. I'm of the impression that this is quite common.
dagw 17y ago
I wonder if apps will be allowed to connect to the internet and if so will there be any charges there. If not, the obvious workaround is to write the smallest possible app and then let the app download additional features on the fly as it is used. I'm guessing Amazon have thought of this though and will crack down on it somehow.
- dagw 17y ago
  Yup, just found the link to Amazons SDK website, and anything over 100KB/month the user will have have to pay for somehow.

ggruschow 17y ago

I really wish that thing had a touchscreen. No pointing device, no scroll wheel, and poor cursor update speed will make the interactions people are used to now impossible. It shuts down its radio all the time right? I assume push notifications are impossible?

davidw 17y ago

I wonder what language/API it uses? Java or C++ are probably safe guesses.

sliverstorm 17y ago
I believe Java is out- it uses a ARM11 CPU running Linux, and I am not aware of a commonly available Java for ARM CPU's...? C/C++ would be seem like a good guess (and my personal preference), but on the other hand it might allow lower-level access than they are prepared to give. In reality, anything that compiles on Linux on the ARM processor could be game- python, ruby, c/c++, perl... but, that kind of access is probably just a pipe dream.
- davidw 17y ago
  > I am not aware of a commonly available Java for ARM CPU' What do you think J2ME runs on?

Tichy 17y ago

I don't have a Kindle yet, so I wonder what the connectivity is like? I think you can't just surf the web with a Kindle, so web applications are out? This news makes me dither between excitement and desperation. Yet another completely different mobile platform to support? Fragmentation is really becoming a problem, web apps seemed like the only hope for a solution... In any case, I suppose it makes sense to wait for the iPad, perhaps we'll think completely different about mobile internet after that.

Erwin 17y ago
It has a basic web browser, but for international customers it seems most sites are restricted -- I can only browse Wikipedia (it uses the mobile version, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/ http://en.m.wikipedia.org/ ) I suspect the deals they've had to do with however many 3G provider companies mean more expensive bandwidth outside of US. I'm not sure about Kindle as an app platform; it feels a little too sluggish when the screen needs to be updated. Good enough for going to a new book page, but interactive applications may be difficult (e.g. just moving the cursor around faster leaves a visible trail). Maybe a new generation of the device with faster screen updates (some kind of dual e-ink/OLED screen?) and better keyboard.
joubert 17y ago
You can surf the web (it is an experimental feature), but even a basic site like HN renders like crap.

cabalamat 17y ago

If the opening up doesn't include an API that allows me to transfer kindle book files onto my Linux box in a portable, DRM-free format, then for me at least it is worthless and Amazon can throw their kindle on a bonfire.

bioweek 17y ago

Can someone make a PDF reader for the Kindle? It would display PDF's somewhat sanely and it would allow bookmarking and annotations.

ableal 17y ago
Besides the one Amazon ships in the latest firmware versions ? ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200324680 http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=2... ) The manuals ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200317150 http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=2... ) seem to say you can bookmark PDF pages, but do not mention clippings or annotations, which are allowed for the mobi/azw default format.
- bioweek 17y ago
  Yes, besides that one. It seems to completely barf on most PDFs especially multi column ones. I don't recall the bookmarking working. And annoations and clippings are definately not there.
  - ableal 17y ago
    Well, I was looking at the DX manual - I confess I'm waiting to lay my mitts on one, which should be landing in my corner of Europe today. If you're talking of the 6" e-ink screen (I have one of the Hanlin ones, branded BeBook), I do not think there's a good way of reading PDFs "printed" to Letter/A4 on them. (Thus the DX.) (Short, of course, of intelligently reflowing the PDF to a smaller page size - which currently seems to be an opportunity ;-)
Tichy 17y ago
I think they forbid "generic readers" as apps.

ralphc 17y ago

What I haven't seen answered is can I develop my own apps for my own Kindle for free? A big factor for me losing interest in iPhone development is having to pay 99$ a year to make apps for myself, that expire in a year.

Tiktaalik 17y ago

I hope this results in a renaissance for interactive fiction (text adventure games).