3 ms·

North Korea - 1948 to present day Of course anyone can go down the path of "well that wasn't real communism" and that goes for any ideology where humans are in

North Korea - 1948 to present day Of course anyone can go down the path of "well that wasn't real communism" and that goes for any ideology where humans are involved. You won't achieve the utopian ideal put forth in a book. And that's really part of the failure, not the reason to explain it away. The fact is some people work harder than others, are more ambitious than others and sacrifice more. And the reason people appreciate a capitalistic society is not only can those types of people get rewarded, those same people motivate others to aspire. And we also know that it's easy to deflate the ambitions of people when they feel like the extra work won't get them any further. Which in my view is why these communist countries develop the fantastic religion around their leaders and at the same time take on the violent means to force their people into working harder. Respect through fear, intimidation and in the case of NK a fantasy of motherly love by the dear leader. Yes I said motherly that wasn't a mistake. But we're talking about countries here, when if you want to talk about communism from a smaller scale, I'm sure I'd have little to argue with, other than that you don't exactly see a lot of what I would call technical progress coming out of communities, at least none I've ever heard of.

ZenoArrow 11y ago
At the risk of repeating myself, North Korea isn't communist. You can't have a communist society if you have leaders. There is practically nothing that resembles communism in North Korea. Let me put it to you like this, any society that doesn't put shared ownership of the means of production at the top of its agenda is not and can never be communist.
- michaelbuddy 11y ago
  I've already stated why it doesn't work. Human psychology towards progression and individual rights. Find us one that works. Then you'll see many other countries follow suit. You can then claim that "oh none have truly existed." And to that the answer is that's because it doesn't work in practice, so it devolves to dictatorships and oppression. If it were a winning combination the world would look that way. The world is not going towards a communist utopia because they are too easily corrupted. Communism at that scale sucks. Why not start your own communist group if you're hell bent on it. Shared ownership is not 'ownership' You don't "own" something if everyone owns it. That's ridiculous doublespeak.
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    > "You can then claim that "oh none have truly existed." And to that the answer is that's because it doesn't work in practice, so it devolves to dictatorships and oppression." Okay then, point to one communist society that started out with shared ownership and devolved into a dictatorship. All the examples I know of started out with a ruling elite and stayed with a ruling elite, so I'm curious about which of these societies devolved over time. > "If it were a winning combination the world would look that way." We've barely begun to explore the possibilities of how societies can work. Furthermore, it's not exactly a common topic of debate in most people's social circles. If it'll take some working examples before people are open to new ideas, then so be it. > "Shared ownership is not 'ownership' You don't "own" something if everyone owns it. That's ridiculous doublespeak." People often need to relate something new to something they already understand. If the word ownership bothers you then you can drop it, the key word is shared. Communist societies share the resources that enable material wealth. > "Why not start your own communist group if you're hell bent on it." I do intend on living in an ecovillage one day, does that count?
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
s73v3r 11y ago
"North Korea - 1948 to present day" Not real communism. "Of course anyone can go down the path of "well that wasn't real communism"" Because it isn't. This isn't a "No True Scotsman" thing; North Korea is not in any way, shape, or form Communist. It is a dictatorship led by a despot. Nothing more.

ZenoArrow 11y ago

At the risk of repeating myself, North Korea isn't communist. You can't have a communist society if you have leaders. There is practically nothing that resembles communism in North Korea. Let me put it to you like this, any society that doesn't put shared ownership of the means of production at the top of its agenda is not and can never be communist.

michaelbuddy 11y ago
I've already stated why it doesn't work. Human psychology towards progression and individual rights. Find us one that works. Then you'll see many other countries follow suit. You can then claim that "oh none have truly existed." And to that the answer is that's because it doesn't work in practice, so it devolves to dictatorships and oppression. If it were a winning combination the world would look that way. The world is not going towards a communist utopia because they are too easily corrupted. Communism at that scale sucks. Why not start your own communist group if you're hell bent on it. Shared ownership is not 'ownership' You don't "own" something if everyone owns it. That's ridiculous doublespeak.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  > "You can then claim that "oh none have truly existed." And to that the answer is that's because it doesn't work in practice, so it devolves to dictatorships and oppression." Okay then, point to one communist society that started out with shared ownership and devolved into a dictatorship. All the examples I know of started out with a ruling elite and stayed with a ruling elite, so I'm curious about which of these societies devolved over time. > "If it were a winning combination the world would look that way." We've barely begun to explore the possibilities of how societies can work. Furthermore, it's not exactly a common topic of debate in most people's social circles. If it'll take some working examples before people are open to new ideas, then so be it. > "Shared ownership is not 'ownership' You don't "own" something if everyone owns it. That's ridiculous doublespeak." People often need to relate something new to something they already understand. If the word ownership bothers you then you can drop it, the key word is shared. Communist societies share the resources that enable material wealth. > "Why not start your own communist group if you're hell bent on it." I do intend on living in an ecovillage one day, does that count?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]

s73v3r 11y ago

"North Korea - 1948 to present day" Not real communism. "Of course anyone can go down the path of "well that wasn't real communism"" Because it isn't. This isn't a "No True Scotsman" thing; North Korea is not in any way, shape, or form Communist. It is a dictatorship led by a despot. Nothing more.