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Just out of curiosity but how do you know this? EDIT: I am not being sarcastic or anything.

by jister 17y ago

Alex3917 17y ago
Basically my friend tried telling him about how John Taylor Gatto's new book suggested that there were some unstated assumptions behind KIPP that were worth examining, but Gates wasn't at all interested in even talking about this, let alone reading the book.
- tjogin 17y ago
  Wow, and from just that you were able to determine that he only reads books that reinforces his existing beliefs? Holy assumptions, Batman!
  - Alex3917 17y ago
    That, and the fact that his articles and speeches on education reflect a shallow thought process that lacks a real nuanced understanding of the problems and tradeoffs.
    - tjogin 17y ago
      Yeah, I'm sure he could learn a thing or two from you.
      - RiderOfGiraffes 17y ago
        Guys, can I suggest that your points can be made more forcefully by stating a position, and not simply attacking each other? And before replying to this, read this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1006657 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1006657 I've been guilty, and occasionally still am guilty, of exactly what PG is observing. You can disagree without attacking each other, and you can make your points without snide asides. Please.
        Alex3917 17y ago
        That wasn't a snipe. My issue with Gates literally is not his ultimate position, but rather the fact his arguments for his position are shallow and lacking nuance. There is a lot of research out there suggesting that while this program may be a fast way to teach troubled kids to read, there's also a lot of research suggesting that it'll completely destroy their intrinsic motivation to learn and, frankly, to do much of anything in the future. Now maybe there is some special reason why the research doesn't apply in this case, or maybe Gates believes it does apply but the tradeoff is worth it. But most likely I don't think Gates even knows that this research exists, and more generally about this wider branch of theory that suggests that this whole approach is going to be really harmful to these kids. That's what bothers me, the fact that he's pushing this program really hard without an honest discussion about its merits and drawbacks.
  - nailer 17y ago
    Stating that someone who doesn't even want to discuss something they disagree with is closed minded seems more a matter of reason than assumption.
    - metachor 17y ago
      It could also be the case that he disagreed with it and simply did not feel like talking about it at the time he was trying to enjoy his lunch. This second-hand anecdote is light on details so I think we cannot draw too deep of conclusions about Gates' character from it.

Just out of curiosity but how do you know this? EDIT: I am not being sarcastic or anything.

by jister 17y ago

Just out of curiosity but how do you know this? EDIT: I am not being sarcastic or anything.

Basically my friend tried telling him about how John Taylor Gatto's new book suggested that there were some unstated assumptions behind KIPP that were worth examining, but Gates wasn't at all interested in even talking about this, let alone reading the book.

tjogin 17y ago
Wow, and from just that you were able to determine that he only reads books that reinforces his existing beliefs? Holy assumptions, Batman!
- Alex3917 17y ago
  That, and the fact that his articles and speeches on education reflect a shallow thought process that lacks a real nuanced understanding of the problems and tradeoffs.
  - tjogin 17y ago
    Yeah, I'm sure he could learn a thing or two from you.
    - RiderOfGiraffes 17y ago
      Guys, can I suggest that your points can be made more forcefully by stating a position, and not simply attacking each other? And before replying to this, read this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1006657 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1006657 I've been guilty, and occasionally still am guilty, of exactly what PG is observing. You can disagree without attacking each other, and you can make your points without snide asides. Please.
      - Alex3917 17y ago
        That wasn't a snipe. My issue with Gates literally is not his ultimate position, but rather the fact his arguments for his position are shallow and lacking nuance. There is a lot of research out there suggesting that while this program may be a fast way to teach troubled kids to read, there's also a lot of research suggesting that it'll completely destroy their intrinsic motivation to learn and, frankly, to do much of anything in the future. Now maybe there is some special reason why the research doesn't apply in this case, or maybe Gates believes it does apply but the tradeoff is worth it. But most likely I don't think Gates even knows that this research exists, and more generally about this wider branch of theory that suggests that this whole approach is going to be really harmful to these kids. That's what bothers me, the fact that he's pushing this program really hard without an honest discussion about its merits and drawbacks.
- nailer 17y ago
  Stating that someone who doesn't even want to discuss something they disagree with is closed minded seems more a matter of reason than assumption.
  - metachor 17y ago
    It could also be the case that he disagreed with it and simply did not feel like talking about it at the time he was trying to enjoy his lunch. This second-hand anecdote is light on details so I think we cannot draw too deep of conclusions about Gates' character from it.