9 ms·

Show HN: Adblock Analytics

42 points by amorgan 11y ago

amorgan 11y ago
I'm the creator of Adblock Analytics and the reason I built it is because a lot of websites seem to be struggling with determining how many of their visitors are blocking ads. I'll be around to answer any questions that might pop up and would love to receive feedback - good, bad or otherwise. Thank you!!
- zaroth 11y ago
  Thanks for posting! Would you like to talk a bit about the tech stack, biggest challenge in building frontend/backend, any marketing so far, any traction?
  - amorgan 11y ago
    Typical LAMP stack is being used & service hasn't been advertised yet.
    - computer 11y ago
      Based on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10664178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10664178 it seems that you are running the tracker on your main domain. For a site like this I would put the tracker that's being hit by sites on a different (sub-)domain, to prevent massive traffic spikes on client sites from also taking down your own homepage.
      - amorgan 11y ago
        Excellent tip that we'll definitely implement asap. Nice username.
- speps 11y ago
  a lot of websites seem to be struggling with determining how many of their visitors are blocking ads So they can now track people using your website? As first comment said, good luck not getting blacklisted...
  - amorgan 11y ago
    We don't track visitors, we're only interested if a visitor can view ads or not.
    - Spivak 11y ago
      Your tool is actively trying to determine what I user does with the page after it's served -- that's tracking. Yes, this behavior is commonplace in the industry but it doesn't mean you wont end up on blocklists because of it.
- morisy 11y ago
  Interesting and I like how accessible it is. Any thoughts on why more tablets than phones currently block ads? Found that kind of surprising.
  - amorgan 11y ago
    That does seem to be the result so far and it'll be interesting to see if that charges as more sites use the service.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  - amorgan 11y ago
    Received your emails - thanks!
- ArtDev 11y ago
  Many site stakeholders don't realize that they have choices. They can: 1) Choose to show only non-offensive ads. 2) Prompt users to whitelist their site. You are in a good position to inform them of this. Please do. There are good reasons people have to block ads.
  - amorgan 11y ago
    You nailed - this is the exact purpose of our service.
cddotdotslash 11y ago
Do you have a contingency plan if your script/domains start getting blocked by the very AdBlockers they're trying to track? For example, Google Analytics is already blocked by a number of plugins (Ghostery, uBlock, Disconnect, etc.)
- zuck9 11y ago
  This is one of the reasons why you can't get perfect stats if you use GA events to track it, which many articles on the internet suggest. The only way is to have the complete tracking implementation on your server.
- amorgan 11y ago
  I hope that doesn't happen because Adblock Analytics is 100% cookieless and doesn't track visitors via any method, we're only interested if ads were displayed or not, but we do have some ideas if it does happen.
  - jimktrains2 11y ago
    I just hope more people start running with NoScript and then all this nonsense is meaningless anyway:)
    - ryan-c 11y ago
      I'm actually just running a script blocker in default deny now - running an adblocker as well doesn't seem to be necessary.
  - rbinv 11y ago
    If cookieless, how do you accurately aggregate/assign pageviews per visitor?
    - yummyfajitas 11y ago
      Browser fingerprinting is one possible way. https://panopticlick.eff.org/ https://panopticlick.eff.org/ [edit: clarified that this is a solution, I have no knowledge as to whether that is what is done.]
gruez 11y ago
From the site: "No Cookies or Visitor Tracking" I'm wondering how you can differentiate visitors from page views without it.
rbinv 11y ago
Personally, I think the pricing is way too high for what you're providing. Also, to people who think that this very JS might get blocked by ad blockers: all of the tracking and reporting could be done (server-side) with Google Analytics nonetheless by making use of the appropriate APIs.
- amorgan 11y ago
  We spent a lot of time discussing pricing and so far it's seemed reasonable, but your feedback has been noted. Definitely true that someone with the right skills, time & resources could leverage existing APIs or build a similar service.
r1ch 11y ago
Given that pagefair does this for free and already has whitelisting agreements with adblock lists, I think your pricing is too high. The only differences I see at a glance are that you break it down into per-device stats and have a tabular view. Does your javascript snippet support subresource integrity? That would be a key selling point as pagefair's CDN was hacked and their snippet replaced to do malware redirects against users. After that incident I'm keeping the number of scripts from "startups" to an absolute minimum.
- amorgan 11y ago
  From what I understand, PageFair is also running an advertising network to cover their costs and that's why they need to be whitelisted. Our solution doesn't display any ads or messages to the visitors of websites which use our service. I've heard their reporting is very basic compared to ours, but would love for someone to do a thorough review. We also offer an API. The PageFair hack was very scary and a good reminder to all companies that require the use of external JavaScript by their users. We currently don't support subresource integrity, but it's now at the top of our to-do list. Thanks for the great feedback!
sarciszewski 11y ago
This could be useful, e.g. for A/B testing to see if your ad campaigns are leading people to turn uBlock back on.
TheAceOfHearts 11y ago
Since nobody has mentioned it yet, you can block this using uBlock Origin by adding the following to your filter list: adblockanalytics.com
- gorhill 11y ago
  This has already been added to uBO's filters: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/commit/ba05804060ec7c4399c8286ed7fb95f2b8f83e06 https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/commit/ba05804060ec7c4399c...
  - Kronopath 11y ago
    It sounds like this has immediately defeated the purpose of the product already.
- amorgan 11y ago
  Purely out of curiosity, why are you opposed to websites knowing how many of their visitors are blocking ads? I get that you're against being tracked, but if they can't find out how their revenue is being affected, then how can they decide if a change in revenue source is necessary?
  - RexM 11y ago
    I think it's mentioned in the commit on uBO: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/commit/ba05804060ec7c4399c8286ed7fb95f2b8f83e06#diff-2269d70bc56a54c25a78533cf13f5657R39 https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/commit/ba05804060ec7c4399c... But basically making external calls to any outside site leaks information (metadata). Some people really don't want want to be tracked. period.
    - amorgan 11y ago
      Totally understand that some people don't want to be tracked, but our service doesn't track anyone nor has any interest in doing so. My response is also raising a question which I'd love to hear your thoughts on.
zeeshanm 11y ago
They are not storing cookies but simply relying on if an ad blocker blocks ads.js or not: https://www.adblockanalytics.com/ads.js https://www.adblockanalytics.com/ads.js: var d = document.createElement("div"); d.id='abaA'; d.style.display='none'; document.body.appendChild(d); var abaA; if(!document.getElementById('abaA')) { abaA = 'N'; } else { abaA = 'Y'; } https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze.js https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze.js: var r = new XMLHttpRequest(); r.open("POST","https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/"); https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/"); r.setRequestHeader("Content-type","application/x-www-form-urlencoded"); r.send("abaI="+abaI+"&abaA="+abaA+"&abaSw="+screen.width+"&abaSh="+screen.height+"&abaBw="+window.innerWidth+"&abaBh="+window.innerHeight); Don't see any reason why an ad blocker would block them.
- amorgan 11y ago
  You are correct - no cookies or any visitor tracking is being used. We only track if the display of an ad is possible. And thanks for reminding me of the screen & window JavaScript variables. They aren't being used at all.
  - Cub3 11y ago
    This is the same method I use to check for adblockers on my sites, is there an issue with this approach or?
  - pdkl95 11y ago
    > open("POST","https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/" https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/") That's gong to cause confirmation bias. Since you're still relying on trusting an unknown client to run your code and submit your result instead of simply parsing the server logs, you have aren't including anybody - with or without an ad blocker (either of which may include downloading ads.js straight to /dev/null) - who decides not to run that <script> tag. > www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/ Time to add another "IN A 0.0.0.0" record to the local resolver.
  - amorgan 11y ago
    The JavaScript screen & window variables have been removed. https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze.js https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze.js var abaA; if(!document.getElementById('abaA')){ abaA='N'; } else{ abaA='Y'; } var r=new XMLHttpRequest(); r.open("POST","https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/"); https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/"); r.setRequestHeader("Content-type","application/x-www-form-urlencoded"); r.send("abaI="+abaI+"&abaA="+abaA);
SimeVidas 11y ago
Off topic: What server-side Node/Express middleware would you recommend to perform analytics (now that client JavaScript-based analytics is no longer reliable)?
thomasahle 11y ago
Interesting from the screenshot, that visitors with adblock have a lower bounce rate and 25% higher pages/visit.
- amorgan 11y ago
  That's what we're seeing so far. Nice attention to detail.
cmacpher 11y ago
This is pretty trivial to implement in GA. I could see why people would want this service
- stevesearer 11y ago
  Can you provide a link to such a method?
zingplex 11y ago
Does your service respect the Do Not Track header?
Cub3 11y ago
I'm surprised this isn't included in current tracking applications
Killswitch 11y ago
I like the site, is that a custom bootstrap theme or a modified one?

42 points by amorgan 11y ago

I'm the creator of Adblock Analytics and the reason I built it is because a lot of websites seem to be struggling with determining how many of their visitors are blocking ads. I'll be around to answer any questions that might pop up and would love to receive feedback - good, bad or otherwise. Thank you!!

zaroth 11y ago
Thanks for posting! Would you like to talk a bit about the tech stack, biggest challenge in building frontend/backend, any marketing so far, any traction?
- amorgan 11y ago
  Typical LAMP stack is being used & service hasn't been advertised yet.
  - computer 11y ago
    Based on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10664178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10664178 it seems that you are running the tracker on your main domain. For a site like this I would put the tracker that's being hit by sites on a different (sub-)domain, to prevent massive traffic spikes on client sites from also taking down your own homepage.
    - amorgan 11y ago
      Excellent tip that we'll definitely implement asap. Nice username.
speps 11y ago
a lot of websites seem to be struggling with determining how many of their visitors are blocking ads So they can now track people using your website? As first comment said, good luck not getting blacklisted...
- amorgan 11y ago
  We don't track visitors, we're only interested if a visitor can view ads or not.
  - Spivak 11y ago
    Your tool is actively trying to determine what I user does with the page after it's served -- that's tracking. Yes, this behavior is commonplace in the industry but it doesn't mean you wont end up on blocklists because of it.
morisy 11y ago
Interesting and I like how accessible it is. Any thoughts on why more tablets than phones currently block ads? Found that kind of surprising.
- amorgan 11y ago
  That does seem to be the result so far and it'll be interesting to see if that charges as more sites use the service.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- amorgan 11y ago
  Received your emails - thanks!
ArtDev 11y ago
Many site stakeholders don't realize that they have choices. They can: 1) Choose to show only non-offensive ads. 2) Prompt users to whitelist their site. You are in a good position to inform them of this. Please do. There are good reasons people have to block ads.
- amorgan 11y ago
  You nailed - this is the exact purpose of our service.

cddotdotslash 11y ago

Do you have a contingency plan if your script/domains start getting blocked by the very AdBlockers they're trying to track? For example, Google Analytics is already blocked by a number of plugins (Ghostery, uBlock, Disconnect, etc.)

zuck9 11y ago
This is one of the reasons why you can't get perfect stats if you use GA events to track it, which many articles on the internet suggest. The only way is to have the complete tracking implementation on your server.
amorgan 11y ago
I hope that doesn't happen because Adblock Analytics is 100% cookieless and doesn't track visitors via any method, we're only interested if ads were displayed or not, but we do have some ideas if it does happen.
- jimktrains2 11y ago
  I just hope more people start running with NoScript and then all this nonsense is meaningless anyway:)
  - ryan-c 11y ago
    I'm actually just running a script blocker in default deny now - running an adblocker as well doesn't seem to be necessary.
- rbinv 11y ago
  If cookieless, how do you accurately aggregate/assign pageviews per visitor?
  - yummyfajitas 11y ago
    Browser fingerprinting is one possible way. https://panopticlick.eff.org/ https://panopticlick.eff.org/ [edit: clarified that this is a solution, I have no knowledge as to whether that is what is done.]

gruez 11y ago

From the site: "No Cookies or Visitor Tracking" I'm wondering how you can differentiate visitors from page views without it.

rbinv 11y ago

Personally, I think the pricing is way too high for what you're providing. Also, to people who think that this very JS might get blocked by ad blockers: all of the tracking and reporting could be done (server-side) with Google Analytics nonetheless by making use of the appropriate APIs.

amorgan 11y ago
We spent a lot of time discussing pricing and so far it's seemed reasonable, but your feedback has been noted. Definitely true that someone with the right skills, time & resources could leverage existing APIs or build a similar service.

r1ch 11y ago

Given that pagefair does this for free and already has whitelisting agreements with adblock lists, I think your pricing is too high. The only differences I see at a glance are that you break it down into per-device stats and have a tabular view. Does your javascript snippet support subresource integrity? That would be a key selling point as pagefair's CDN was hacked and their snippet replaced to do malware redirects against users. After that incident I'm keeping the number of scripts from "startups" to an absolute minimum.

amorgan 11y ago
From what I understand, PageFair is also running an advertising network to cover their costs and that's why they need to be whitelisted. Our solution doesn't display any ads or messages to the visitors of websites which use our service. I've heard their reporting is very basic compared to ours, but would love for someone to do a thorough review. We also offer an API. The PageFair hack was very scary and a good reminder to all companies that require the use of external JavaScript by their users. We currently don't support subresource integrity, but it's now at the top of our to-do list. Thanks for the great feedback!

sarciszewski 11y ago

This could be useful, e.g. for A/B testing to see if your ad campaigns are leading people to turn uBlock back on.

TheAceOfHearts 11y ago

Since nobody has mentioned it yet, you can block this using uBlock Origin by adding the following to your filter list: adblockanalytics.com

gorhill 11y ago
This has already been added to uBO's filters: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/commit/ba05804060ec7c4399c8286ed7fb95f2b8f83e06 https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/commit/ba05804060ec7c4399c...
- Kronopath 11y ago
  It sounds like this has immediately defeated the purpose of the product already.
amorgan 11y ago
Purely out of curiosity, why are you opposed to websites knowing how many of their visitors are blocking ads? I get that you're against being tracked, but if they can't find out how their revenue is being affected, then how can they decide if a change in revenue source is necessary?
- RexM 11y ago
  I think it's mentioned in the commit on uBO: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/commit/ba05804060ec7c4399c8286ed7fb95f2b8f83e06#diff-2269d70bc56a54c25a78533cf13f5657R39 https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/commit/ba05804060ec7c4399c... But basically making external calls to any outside site leaks information (metadata). Some people really don't want want to be tracked. period.
  - amorgan 11y ago
    Totally understand that some people don't want to be tracked, but our service doesn't track anyone nor has any interest in doing so. My response is also raising a question which I'd love to hear your thoughts on.

zeeshanm 11y ago

They are not storing cookies but simply relying on if an ad blocker blocks ads.js or not: https://www.adblockanalytics.com/ads.js https://www.adblockanalytics.com/ads.js: var d = document.createElement("div"); d.id='abaA'; d.style.display='none'; document.body.appendChild(d); var abaA; if(!document.getElementById('abaA')) { abaA = 'N'; } else { abaA = 'Y'; } https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze.js https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze.js: var r = new XMLHttpRequest(); r.open("POST","https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/"); https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/"); r.setRequestHeader("Content-type","application/x-www-form-urlencoded"); r.send("abaI="+abaI+"&abaA="+abaA+"&abaSw="+screen.width+"&abaSh="+screen.height+"&abaBw="+window.innerWidth+"&abaBh="+window.innerHeight); Don't see any reason why an ad blocker would block them.

amorgan 11y ago
You are correct - no cookies or any visitor tracking is being used. We only track if the display of an ad is possible. And thanks for reminding me of the screen & window JavaScript variables. They aren't being used at all.
- Cub3 11y ago
  This is the same method I use to check for adblockers on my sites, is there an issue with this approach or?
- pdkl95 11y ago
  > open("POST","https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/" https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/") That's gong to cause confirmation bias. Since you're still relying on trusting an unknown client to run your code and submit your result instead of simply parsing the server logs, you have aren't including anybody - with or without an ad blocker (either of which may include downloading ads.js straight to /dev/null) - who decides not to run that <script> tag. > www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/ Time to add another "IN A 0.0.0.0" record to the local resolver.
- amorgan 11y ago
  The JavaScript screen & window variables have been removed. https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze.js https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze.js var abaA; if(!document.getElementById('abaA')){ abaA='N'; } else{ abaA='Y'; } var r=new XMLHttpRequest(); r.open("POST","https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/"); https://www.adblockanalytics.com/analyze/"); r.setRequestHeader("Content-type","application/x-www-form-urlencoded"); r.send("abaI="+abaI+"&abaA="+abaA);

SimeVidas 11y ago

Off topic: What server-side Node/Express middleware would you recommend to perform analytics (now that client JavaScript-based analytics is no longer reliable)?

thomasahle 11y ago

Interesting from the screenshot, that visitors with adblock have a lower bounce rate and 25% higher pages/visit.

amorgan 11y ago
That's what we're seeing so far. Nice attention to detail.

cmacpher 11y ago

This is pretty trivial to implement in GA. I could see why people would want this service

stevesearer 11y ago
Can you provide a link to such a method?

zingplex 11y ago

Does your service respect the Do Not Track header?

Cub3 11y ago

I'm surprised this isn't included in current tracking applications

Killswitch 11y ago

I like the site, is that a custom bootstrap theme or a modified one?