3 ms·

They be utterly pretentious. Germanic languages have gender. Language change should be natural, not forced based on some nebulous social engineering goal. Spe

They be utterly pretentious. Germanic languages have gender. Language change should be natural, not forced based on some nebulous social engineering goal. Speakers of Old English considered each noun to have a grammatical gender. If anyone has a serious citation for "he" was imposed by "meddling grammarians", please let us know. Don't we already have a neutral pronoun: "it"?

dang 11y ago
The point is that it has nothing to do with language change. It has been settled usage since Chaucer. It's generic 'he' that was the interloper. Ironically, the language engineers of today have most in common with the meddling grammarians who tried (never entirely successfully) to impose it.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
Avshalom 11y ago
Singular 'they' is one of the most natural changes to language I've ever been aware of. Certainly more natural than the 'he or she' malarkey people (and don't think I don't notice the precedent given to he) have been forcing on students in the name of better conforming to a nonexistent English grammar, that we only pretend exists so we can give people shit when they fail to remember when they should put it on.
dang 11y ago
> If anyone has a serious citation for "he" was imposed by "meddling grammarians" There are lots of citations about this on the web and even a whole bunch in past HN threads. This is one of the more fascinating articles: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/magazine/26FOB-onlanguage-t.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/magazine/26FOB-onlanguage-...
- tosseraccount 11y ago
  Sorry. I removed the complaint. Thanks for the link. I'll note this ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they#Trend_to_prescription_of_generic_he_from_19th_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they#Trend_to_prescri... reports that "In spite of continuous attempts on the part of educationalists to proscribe singular they in favour of he, its use remained widespread, and the advice was largely ignored".
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > "In spite of continuous attempts on the part of educationalists to proscribe singular they in favour of he, its use remained widespread, and the advice was largely ignored". > So, it appears that "they" is the imposition, "he" is the widespread use. I think you are confusing the word "proscribe" with the sounds-and-looks-very-similar-but-means-almost-exactly-the-opposite "prescribe". proscribe: forbid, especially by law; denounce or condemn prescribe: recommend (a substance or action) as something beneficial; state authoritatively or as a rule that (an action or procedure) should be carried out.
    - tosseraccount 11y ago
      dang. you're right. mea culpa.

dang 11y ago

The point is that it has nothing to do with language change. It has been settled usage since Chaucer. It's generic 'he' that was the interloper. Ironically, the language engineers of today have most in common with the meddling grammarians who tried (never entirely successfully) to impose it.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

Avshalom 11y ago

Singular 'they' is one of the most natural changes to language I've ever been aware of. Certainly more natural than the 'he or she' malarkey people (and don't think I don't notice the precedent given to he) have been forcing on students in the name of better conforming to a nonexistent English grammar, that we only pretend exists so we can give people shit when they fail to remember when they should put it on.

dang 11y ago

> If anyone has a serious citation for "he" was imposed by "meddling grammarians" There are lots of citations about this on the web and even a whole bunch in past HN threads. This is one of the more fascinating articles: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/magazine/26FOB-onlanguage-t.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/magazine/26FOB-onlanguage-...

tosseraccount 11y ago
Sorry. I removed the complaint. Thanks for the link. I'll note this ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they#Trend_to_prescription_of_generic_he_from_19th_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they#Trend_to_prescri... reports that "In spite of continuous attempts on the part of educationalists to proscribe singular they in favour of he, its use remained widespread, and the advice was largely ignored".
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > "In spite of continuous attempts on the part of educationalists to proscribe singular they in favour of he, its use remained widespread, and the advice was largely ignored". > So, it appears that "they" is the imposition, "he" is the widespread use. I think you are confusing the word "proscribe" with the sounds-and-looks-very-similar-but-means-almost-exactly-the-opposite "prescribe". proscribe: forbid, especially by law; denounce or condemn prescribe: recommend (a substance or action) as something beneficial; state authoritatively or as a rule that (an action or procedure) should be carried out.
  - tosseraccount 11y ago
    dang. you're right. mea culpa.