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Is the EFF's problem that this information is stored on Google servers? Syncing settings to an account seems like one of the prime selling points for a school

Is the EFF's problem that this information is stored on Google servers? Syncing settings to an account seems like one of the prime selling points for a school using chromebooks. A child loses their chromebook, or gets issued a different one the next September all their favorites, apps, etc are there ready to go when they sign in. https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/2914794?hl=en https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/2914794?hl=en

maratd 11y ago
Let's try this exercise. Replace "Google" with "Lenovo". Lenovo sells computers to schools. The computers upload everything entered onto the computer to Lenovo by minors without consent. Everything uploaded is data-mined. You can switch it off in some obscure setting. You would have people carrying pitchforks here instead of saying "really?". Google doesn't get a pass. This is shady. Should be off by default.
- Zhenya 11y ago
  Wrong - Replace Google with Canonical/Apple. Doesn't seem so bad now, does it? Lenovo does not make the OS on the machine and DEFINITELY does not provide cloud services like Google.
  - natch 11y ago
    You overlooked that small detail where for services where the cloud does not require plaintext, Apple encrypts everything with a key that never leaves the client.
    - Zhenya 11y ago
      Cool. Challenge to you; get some plain text from another google user account that's private. If you do, don't reply in this thread. Just go straight here: https://www.google.com/about/appsecurity/reward-program/ https://www.google.com/about/appsecurity/reward-program/
      - natch 11y ago
        Now you overlooked that small detail where it's Google that is exploiting the data, not me. And doing so on behalf of itself, its partners, its future partners and assignees in perpetuity, and your ex-wife's lawyer.
      - ionised 11y ago
        I don't think he's worried about other users getting access to data, but what Google is actually doing with it themselves.
        natch 11y ago
        Yep.
  - longlivegnu 11y ago
    It's not okay regardless who is doing it.
    - oh_sigh 11y ago
      Or - it is okay depending on who does it.
- kllrnohj 11y ago
  > Everything uploaded is data-mined From the article: "Google does not use student data for targeted advertising" So... what's the problem? The data is uploaded for a clear and legitimate need, the ability for school's to loan out chromebooks on demand. The data is not used for advertising. Near as I can tell the complaint is this nebulous "it's being data mined" with no elaboration or evidence.
  - dangrossman 11y ago
    Also from the article: "EFF’s filing with the FTC also reveals that the administrative settings Google provides to schools allow student personal information to be shared with third-party websites in violation of the Student Privacy Pledge." "Google told EFF that it will soon disable a setting on school Chromebooks that allows Chrome Sync data, such as browsing history, to be shared with other Google services."
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - teaneedz 11y ago
    It might not be for ad targeting, but it's for Google's monetization as stated in the article. It's mined. Google should not be allowed near an educational environment. It's business is built on data collection and monetization of it.
    - kllrnohj 11y ago
      > Google's monetization as stated in the article. It's mined. Yes that's the claim but where is the evidence? Unsubstantiated claims are also called conspiracy theories.
      - pdkl95 11y ago
        Where is the evidence for Google's claims of not using the data? Why would you take their word for it. People who following unsubstantiated claims are also called apparatchik.
- thomaskcr 11y ago
  The entire premise of the Chromebook is that nothing is stored locally and you're almost exclusively using web services. That's how they're expected to work. You can't use one without knowing that your data isn't stored on that specific machine because in many cases you can't even access your data without an internet connection. I've seen no evidence of data mining - I can't even think of a use for this data, much less a use that would be worth the risk considering their growing popularity and how well Office in schools worked out for Microsoft. I imagine just them using Gmail and Google apps is far more valuable than any fruitless advertising to people that can't spend money.
  - maratd 11y ago
    > The entire premise of the Chromebook is that nothing is stored locally A piece of hardware doesn't have a premise. I installed Linux on my Chromebook. Is that wrong? At what point did we stop decoupling software and hardware? I'll pass on that notion. > I've seen no evidence of data mining You're kidding, right? I promise you, Google is keeping tabs on every byte passing their servers. So is everyone else. Hell, so am I with my servers. > I imagine just them using Gmail and Google apps is far more valuable than any fruitless advertising to people that can't spend money. What? Google makes money through advertising. They can't advertise if they don't know what you like. They only get paid when you click. So yeah, they data mine GMail and all the other Google Apps to know what ads to show you. And they show them on all of their properties. That's why there's a switch there to stop sharing with other services, etc. and that's why they're now promising to have that off by default.

maratd 11y ago

Let's try this exercise. Replace "Google" with "Lenovo". Lenovo sells computers to schools. The computers upload everything entered onto the computer to Lenovo by minors without consent. Everything uploaded is data-mined. You can switch it off in some obscure setting. You would have people carrying pitchforks here instead of saying "really?". Google doesn't get a pass. This is shady. Should be off by default.

Zhenya 11y ago
Wrong - Replace Google with Canonical/Apple. Doesn't seem so bad now, does it? Lenovo does not make the OS on the machine and DEFINITELY does not provide cloud services like Google.
- natch 11y ago
  You overlooked that small detail where for services where the cloud does not require plaintext, Apple encrypts everything with a key that never leaves the client.
  - Zhenya 11y ago
    Cool. Challenge to you; get some plain text from another google user account that's private. If you do, don't reply in this thread. Just go straight here: https://www.google.com/about/appsecurity/reward-program/ https://www.google.com/about/appsecurity/reward-program/
    - natch 11y ago
      Now you overlooked that small detail where it's Google that is exploiting the data, not me. And doing so on behalf of itself, its partners, its future partners and assignees in perpetuity, and your ex-wife's lawyer.
    - ionised 11y ago
      I don't think he's worried about other users getting access to data, but what Google is actually doing with it themselves.
      - natch 11y ago
        Yep.
- longlivegnu 11y ago
  It's not okay regardless who is doing it.
  - oh_sigh 11y ago
    Or - it is okay depending on who does it.
kllrnohj 11y ago
> Everything uploaded is data-mined From the article: "Google does not use student data for targeted advertising" So... what's the problem? The data is uploaded for a clear and legitimate need, the ability for school's to loan out chromebooks on demand. The data is not used for advertising. Near as I can tell the complaint is this nebulous "it's being data mined" with no elaboration or evidence.
- dangrossman 11y ago
  Also from the article: "EFF’s filing with the FTC also reveals that the administrative settings Google provides to schools allow student personal information to be shared with third-party websites in violation of the Student Privacy Pledge." "Google told EFF that it will soon disable a setting on school Chromebooks that allows Chrome Sync data, such as browsing history, to be shared with other Google services."
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- teaneedz 11y ago
  It might not be for ad targeting, but it's for Google's monetization as stated in the article. It's mined. Google should not be allowed near an educational environment. It's business is built on data collection and monetization of it.
  - kllrnohj 11y ago
    > Google's monetization as stated in the article. It's mined. Yes that's the claim but where is the evidence? Unsubstantiated claims are also called conspiracy theories.
    - pdkl95 11y ago
      Where is the evidence for Google's claims of not using the data? Why would you take their word for it. People who following unsubstantiated claims are also called apparatchik.
thomaskcr 11y ago
The entire premise of the Chromebook is that nothing is stored locally and you're almost exclusively using web services. That's how they're expected to work. You can't use one without knowing that your data isn't stored on that specific machine because in many cases you can't even access your data without an internet connection. I've seen no evidence of data mining - I can't even think of a use for this data, much less a use that would be worth the risk considering their growing popularity and how well Office in schools worked out for Microsoft. I imagine just them using Gmail and Google apps is far more valuable than any fruitless advertising to people that can't spend money.
- maratd 11y ago
  > The entire premise of the Chromebook is that nothing is stored locally A piece of hardware doesn't have a premise. I installed Linux on my Chromebook. Is that wrong? At what point did we stop decoupling software and hardware? I'll pass on that notion. > I've seen no evidence of data mining You're kidding, right? I promise you, Google is keeping tabs on every byte passing their servers. So is everyone else. Hell, so am I with my servers. > I imagine just them using Gmail and Google apps is far more valuable than any fruitless advertising to people that can't spend money. What? Google makes money through advertising. They can't advertise if they don't know what you like. They only get paid when you click. So yeah, they data mine GMail and all the other Google Apps to know what ads to show you. And they show them on all of their properties. That's why there's a switch there to stop sharing with other services, etc. and that's why they're now promising to have that off by default.