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The professor is the one who brought up the safe place terminology in this instance. Not the student. One thing to realize, also, is the context of love (as th

The professor is the one who brought up the safe place terminology in this instance. Not the student. One thing to realize, also, is the context of love (as the topic of discussion in the classroom was in 1 Corinthians 13) in many evangelical circles. Love, defined in many conservative christian circles, is devotion to the Church, the Husband and God, to the exclusion of all else. Even when it hurts. It's about staying in an abusive relationship because you need to submit to your husband's wishes, no matter what. It is not the selfless emotional connection of one person to another. It is the subjugation of the self. This student may very well have felt victimized for how love was being talked about. But all we know about the classroom discussion was that the topic was 1 Corinthians 13. Not what was actually talked about with regard to that chapter. I've heard 1 Corinthians 13 be twisted in some very evil ways.

brightball 11y ago
"Love, defined in many conservative christian circles, is devotion to the Church, the Husband and God, to the exclusion of all else." Please do not read any tone into what I'm saying here, because if you've gotten that message I honestly don't know how. "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another." - John 13:34 The verse you reference above is in the context of marriage and you hear it a lot at weddings, but the context of love within Christian community is always going to go straight to the way that Jesus defined it. There's no part of the Christian community that is going to try to override what Jesus said. "Just as I have loved you" means unconditionally. It doesn't mean as long as they agree with you, have the same color skin as you, speak the same language as you or fit some specific stencil. I realize this is a bit off-kilter for Hacker News but sermons that talk about how we are all sinners in need of forgiveness are there specifically for two reasons. 1. No matter what you have done, God will forgive you. No matter what you have done, God loves you. 2. Because God will forgive the worst of us who truly asks for forgiveness, we have no right to deny forgiveness to anyone who truly asks for it either. I've visited a lot of different churches throughout the southeast in my life and I've never once heard a minister say anything that implies anything other than the above.
- warfangle 11y ago
  A lot of the very right-wing evangelical churches do. I grew up in one. They use words that mean one thing to everyone else but mean (via subtext) another thing entirely to the in-group. That's why I specifically called out that kind of church; I thought I was careful about that. I've been in many churches that are amazing, wonderful places. But I've been to other churches (usually PCA) that can be downright evil. Edit: this wasn't about skin color, but more LGBTQ/nonbelievers. They're a very different breed of bigot than Those Who Wear Sheets.
aggieben 11y ago
The professor is the one who brought up the safe place terminology in this instance. Not the student. I guess "safe space" (quoted as a term under discussion) isn't really the right term here - but the student is the one who raised the issue of "victimization", which to my mind is really more what we're talking about than actual safe spaces as you defined them. So on this point, that might actually be good feedback to that professor, because I think struggling with the terminology in this particular topic is common. One thing to realize ...is the context of love ...in many evangelical circles As a conservative evangelical myself, your explanation of the Christian concept of love is somewhat confusing and contradictory to me. But putting that aside, I still don't see how this student felt "victimized", unless now any negative feeling or emotion makes one a victim. Feeling guilty for failing to live up to a standard is a negative feeling, but I don't think it makes one a victim (and if it does, then I think the word victim becomes utterly void of meaning).
- warfangle 11y ago
  If he did feel victimized, how christian of the professor it was to just shut him down instead of trying to understand with compassion why he felt victimized...! :) One wonders if it was all in the professor's head? Or if it even happened? Where's the proof! Flip the conversation, just because the professor is claiming to be accused of saying something that made the student feel victimized doesn't mean it happened!
  - aws_ls 11y ago
    And if the incident happened as described, then imagine the position of the student now. Perhaps s/he is thinking: 'Bugger broke my trust, by blogging publicly on what was an honest feedback. Never again I am giving any feedback to authority. Anonymous blogging is better'

brightball 11y ago

"Love, defined in many conservative christian circles, is devotion to the Church, the Husband and God, to the exclusion of all else." Please do not read any tone into what I'm saying here, because if you've gotten that message I honestly don't know how. "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another." - John 13:34 The verse you reference above is in the context of marriage and you hear it a lot at weddings, but the context of love within Christian community is always going to go straight to the way that Jesus defined it. There's no part of the Christian community that is going to try to override what Jesus said. "Just as I have loved you" means unconditionally. It doesn't mean as long as they agree with you, have the same color skin as you, speak the same language as you or fit some specific stencil. I realize this is a bit off-kilter for Hacker News but sermons that talk about how we are all sinners in need of forgiveness are there specifically for two reasons. 1. No matter what you have done, God will forgive you. No matter what you have done, God loves you. 2. Because God will forgive the worst of us who truly asks for forgiveness, we have no right to deny forgiveness to anyone who truly asks for it either. I've visited a lot of different churches throughout the southeast in my life and I've never once heard a minister say anything that implies anything other than the above.

warfangle 11y ago
A lot of the very right-wing evangelical churches do. I grew up in one. They use words that mean one thing to everyone else but mean (via subtext) another thing entirely to the in-group. That's why I specifically called out that kind of church; I thought I was careful about that. I've been in many churches that are amazing, wonderful places. But I've been to other churches (usually PCA) that can be downright evil. Edit: this wasn't about skin color, but more LGBTQ/nonbelievers. They're a very different breed of bigot than Those Who Wear Sheets.

aggieben 11y ago

The professor is the one who brought up the safe place terminology in this instance. Not the student. I guess "safe space" (quoted as a term under discussion) isn't really the right term here - but the student is the one who raised the issue of "victimization", which to my mind is really more what we're talking about than actual safe spaces as you defined them. So on this point, that might actually be good feedback to that professor, because I think struggling with the terminology in this particular topic is common. One thing to realize ...is the context of love ...in many evangelical circles As a conservative evangelical myself, your explanation of the Christian concept of love is somewhat confusing and contradictory to me. But putting that aside, I still don't see how this student felt "victimized", unless now any negative feeling or emotion makes one a victim. Feeling guilty for failing to live up to a standard is a negative feeling, but I don't think it makes one a victim (and if it does, then I think the word victim becomes utterly void of meaning).

warfangle 11y ago
If he did feel victimized, how christian of the professor it was to just shut him down instead of trying to understand with compassion why he felt victimized...! :) One wonders if it was all in the professor's head? Or if it even happened? Where's the proof! Flip the conversation, just because the professor is claiming to be accused of saying something that made the student feel victimized doesn't mean it happened!
- aws_ls 11y ago
  And if the incident happened as described, then imagine the position of the student now. Perhaps s/he is thinking: 'Bugger broke my trust, by blogging publicly on what was an honest feedback. Never again I am giving any feedback to authority. Anonymous blogging is better'