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India's CO2 emissions are pittance compared to US, China and especially if you take the population into account. India has such a coal shortage they are making

by sremani 11y ago

India's CO2 emissions are pittance compared to US, China and especially if you take the population into account. India has such a coal shortage they are making a pivot faster than many people think to Solar and Nuclear. The last regime messed up the Nuclear part because Fukushima happened and there was this leftist surge of pinning the blame on suppliers etc. If they fix the liability laws in Nuclear, in next couple of decades, India will move the NG, Solar and Nuclear at a satisfactory pace.

chimeracoder 11y ago
> India's CO2 emissions are pittance compared to US, China and especially if you take the population into account. Exactly. India's carbon emissions per capita are the lowest of all the countries listed here[0]; the US emits almost ten times as much per capita. That's literally 2.3 times as much by volume, even though India has 1.2 billion people. (And the US isn't even the top of the list - Australia is!) For comparison, the EU emits four times as much carbon per-capita as India, which amounts to 1.5 times as much by volume (despite the EU's small population of only 500,000,000). China is often used as a bogeyman when it comes to the environment, but honestly, even China's emits half as much carbon per-capita as the US does, and only a hair more than the EU does. They just have four times as many people as the US. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...
- danans 11y ago
  Even when India achieves a level of development comparable to the US, Europe, and increasingly China, it will likely still have a lower household CO2 footprint, just because it is a much warmer place, with higher population density. The farther north you are and as long as the primary fuel is carbon-based (NG, Electricity from NG or Coal), you'll need more of it to survive. Transportation CO2 in India will likely grow, as it is a function of travel frequency and distances for people/goods, and it takes basically the same amount of energy per mile everywhere. What's really striking to me is that the US per capita CO2 emission probably isn't twice as high as China because of our high industrial output, but rather because of our widespread use of carbon-intensive heating and propulsion tech coupled with huge houses and vehicles, and low density cities. All of these CO2 emissions can be turned around by really disruptive low/zero CO2 energy generation, both variable renewables and stable baseline to replace coal. For that we either need mass cheap energy storage, or invest seriously in safe (non-fissile?) nuclear energy, preferably both.
  - devdas 11y ago
    And then Indians will spend that on cooling instead.
    - danans 11y ago
      Heating a house from 30F to 70F uses far more energy than cooling a house from 100F to 70F: http://www.citylab.com/housing/2013/03/cities-dependent-air-conditioning-might-be-more-sustainable-we-think/5115/ http://www.citylab.com/housing/2013/03/cities-dependent-air-... The question is where does the electricity for cooling come from. If it's mostly coal-powered electricity, that's pretty bad, considering the low efficiency and high CO2 output of coal burning electricity generation. Obviously that needs to change. Hopefully they start using more nuclear and renewables as the cost of those drops. For one thing, India has incredible solar resources (http://mnre.gov.in/sec/DNI_Annual.jpg http://mnre.gov.in/sec/DNI_Annual.jpg, http://www.dlr.de/tt/Portaldata/41/Resources/dokumente/institut/system/projects/reaccess/ssedni60.jpg http://www.dlr.de/tt/Portaldata/41/Resources/dokumente/insti...), being as close to the equator as it is, and it also has large populations living in areas with high irradiation, in comparison to Europe or even China. Once the price of solar drops further (it's within reach of the middle-class in US and Western-Europe), they will have even more reason to adopt it.
newyankee 11y ago
I remember that during the previous regime India imported a significant portion of the coal consumed despite having one of the largest deposits of coal in the world. The coal mines are probably one of the biggest corrupt sectors in India but a great deal of changes have taken place recently which has given a fillip to local production. A lot of Indian thermal power plants ran severely under capacity a few years back and that is changing now. India needs a rapid scale up of energy capacity and needs all the Coal, Solar and Nuclear energy it can get. I am really bullish on the first two (Coal for about a decade or so, can taper off later). I really hope our Nuclear capacity expands fast as well, it is the only environmentally friendly option we have for our size.
topspin 11y ago
> India has such a coal shortage they are making a pivot faster than many people think to Solar and Nuclear. I'm sorry but those claims are so far out of phase with reality I have to respond. India's response to coal supply problems is to grow coal mining at double digit rates. India is opening a new coal mine every month with the goal of doubling already large coal production in the next five years. http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/india-opening-coal-mines-will-surpass-u-s-in-coal-production/ http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/india-opening... This means that by the time the next US president tries to get reelected India will be producing more coal than the US. India is definitely not "pivoting" to renewables. If there is a "pivot" it is toward domestic coal over foreign coal. The amount of new coal generation capacity under construction now is almost five times the approved (as opposed to under construction) nuclear and renewable capacity combined. Details here: http://www.industry.gov.au/Office-of-the-Chief-Economist/Publications/Documents/Coal-in-India.pdf http://www.industry.gov.au/Office-of-the-Chief-Economist/Pub... And some large fraction of the approved renewable capacity is window dressing so renewable proponents and climate negotiators can make the claims you offered here. It won't be built. Ten years from now India will have doubled it coal generation and that same token amount of 'approved' renewable capacity will still be on the books. India is all about coal and India knows it. India just told Obama and the rest of the climate elites in Paris to sod off with their "carbon imperialism." India has no intention of ruining its growth on behalf of Western anxieties. Right or wrong, that's reality.

by sremani 11y ago

chimeracoder 11y ago

> India's CO2 emissions are pittance compared to US, China and especially if you take the population into account. Exactly. India's carbon emissions per capita are the lowest of all the countries listed here[0]; the US emits almost ten times as much per capita. That's literally 2.3 times as much by volume, even though India has 1.2 billion people. (And the US isn't even the top of the list - Australia is!) For comparison, the EU emits four times as much carbon per-capita as India, which amounts to 1.5 times as much by volume (despite the EU's small population of only 500,000,000). China is often used as a bogeyman when it comes to the environment, but honestly, even China's emits half as much carbon per-capita as the US does, and only a hair more than the EU does. They just have four times as many people as the US. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

danans 11y ago
Even when India achieves a level of development comparable to the US, Europe, and increasingly China, it will likely still have a lower household CO2 footprint, just because it is a much warmer place, with higher population density. The farther north you are and as long as the primary fuel is carbon-based (NG, Electricity from NG or Coal), you'll need more of it to survive. Transportation CO2 in India will likely grow, as it is a function of travel frequency and distances for people/goods, and it takes basically the same amount of energy per mile everywhere. What's really striking to me is that the US per capita CO2 emission probably isn't twice as high as China because of our high industrial output, but rather because of our widespread use of carbon-intensive heating and propulsion tech coupled with huge houses and vehicles, and low density cities. All of these CO2 emissions can be turned around by really disruptive low/zero CO2 energy generation, both variable renewables and stable baseline to replace coal. For that we either need mass cheap energy storage, or invest seriously in safe (non-fissile?) nuclear energy, preferably both.
- devdas 11y ago
  And then Indians will spend that on cooling instead.
  - danans 11y ago
    Heating a house from 30F to 70F uses far more energy than cooling a house from 100F to 70F: http://www.citylab.com/housing/2013/03/cities-dependent-air-conditioning-might-be-more-sustainable-we-think/5115/ http://www.citylab.com/housing/2013/03/cities-dependent-air-... The question is where does the electricity for cooling come from. If it's mostly coal-powered electricity, that's pretty bad, considering the low efficiency and high CO2 output of coal burning electricity generation. Obviously that needs to change. Hopefully they start using more nuclear and renewables as the cost of those drops. For one thing, India has incredible solar resources (http://mnre.gov.in/sec/DNI_Annual.jpg http://mnre.gov.in/sec/DNI_Annual.jpg, http://www.dlr.de/tt/Portaldata/41/Resources/dokumente/institut/system/projects/reaccess/ssedni60.jpg http://www.dlr.de/tt/Portaldata/41/Resources/dokumente/insti...), being as close to the equator as it is, and it also has large populations living in areas with high irradiation, in comparison to Europe or even China. Once the price of solar drops further (it's within reach of the middle-class in US and Western-Europe), they will have even more reason to adopt it.

newyankee 11y ago

I remember that during the previous regime India imported a significant portion of the coal consumed despite having one of the largest deposits of coal in the world. The coal mines are probably one of the biggest corrupt sectors in India but a great deal of changes have taken place recently which has given a fillip to local production. A lot of Indian thermal power plants ran severely under capacity a few years back and that is changing now. India needs a rapid scale up of energy capacity and needs all the Coal, Solar and Nuclear energy it can get. I am really bullish on the first two (Coal for about a decade or so, can taper off later). I really hope our Nuclear capacity expands fast as well, it is the only environmentally friendly option we have for our size.

topspin 11y ago

> India has such a coal shortage they are making a pivot faster than many people think to Solar and Nuclear. I'm sorry but those claims are so far out of phase with reality I have to respond. India's response to coal supply problems is to grow coal mining at double digit rates. India is opening a new coal mine every month with the goal of doubling already large coal production in the next five years. http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/india-opening-coal-mines-will-surpass-u-s-in-coal-production/ http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/india-opening... This means that by the time the next US president tries to get reelected India will be producing more coal than the US. India is definitely not "pivoting" to renewables. If there is a "pivot" it is toward domestic coal over foreign coal. The amount of new coal generation capacity under construction now is almost five times the approved (as opposed to under construction) nuclear and renewable capacity combined. Details here: http://www.industry.gov.au/Office-of-the-Chief-Economist/Publications/Documents/Coal-in-India.pdf http://www.industry.gov.au/Office-of-the-Chief-Economist/Pub... And some large fraction of the approved renewable capacity is window dressing so renewable proponents and climate negotiators can make the claims you offered here. It won't be built. Ten years from now India will have doubled it coal generation and that same token amount of 'approved' renewable capacity will still be on the books. India is all about coal and India knows it. India just told Obama and the rest of the climate elites in Paris to sod off with their "carbon imperialism." India has no intention of ruining its growth on behalf of Western anxieties. Right or wrong, that's reality.