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It doesn't help that campuses increasingly operate like day cares: they treat adult students like children. A great example is orientation. Throughout the US,

by jMyles 11y ago

It doesn't help that campuses increasingly operate like day cares: they treat adult students like children. A great example is orientation. Throughout the US, until fairly recently (at my Alma Mater, SUNY New Paltz - it was 1973), orientation was 100% run by students with no state or 'administrative' involvement. And it was an adult event. It involved camping, orienteering, and serious discussions about the life ahead. Now that the state is involved, it's a cringey PG-13 experience that leaves students completely disoriented and feeling like children. The same is true of the way Student Union buildings are run today. And residence life. And university police. And campus dining. And many other facets of student life.

veritas3241 11y ago
I've noticed this as well. My fiancee attends a school to train Nurse Anesthetists. All of the students are previously professional nurses with multi-year work experiences. The school treats all of them like children. They treat them like they're not professionals and they're incapable of being responsible. As an outsider, it's the most frustrating thing in the world because I just want to slap these people and knock some reason and respect into them. It doesn't help too that it's a Seventh-Day Adventist school and we're both atheists. But it's the only school in town so...
sotojuan 11y ago
I wonder how much this has to do with the general baby-ing of people of all ages. Kids don't play outside in the woods any more, parents pick up kids from their bus stops, etc. Is this because parents complained?
- jMyles 11y ago
  I can't speak, or at least not much, to the changes that occurred in the 70's. But they are still happening today, and they are decidedly NOT in response to parents. At all. In fact, parents have very little power to effect change at a SUNY school as far as I can tell. Rather, these seem to be directives coming from Albany (or beyond) and disseminated at conferences that are attended by Student Life "professionals." For example, go to just about any state school (including a SUNY) and take a walk around the Student Union. I'll bet that you'll notice that it is swarming with state officials - typically students who work part time for the state in a "Student Activities" office. Maybe you'll see one of their managers, a "Director of Student Union Services" or something similar. Ask how many people worked in that office 10 years ago vs. today, and I'll bet that, more often than not, you'll find that the size of these offices have increased by 50% or more during that time. The consequence is that student governments, who traditionally ran all the operations of Student Unions and did a great job of it, are now pushed out of this function, in favor of state officials and state directives running them instead. And these state directives almost always include infantifacation of events and decor in the Student Union. I have observed this phenomenon at SUNY New Paltz, Binghamton University, the University of Connecticut, UMD College Park (although the food co-cop there is amazing and serves as a partial counter-example) and half a dozen other campuses. Every time I ask about it, I'm told that it's part of a nationwide trend. It's bullshit. It's very expensive (compared to the shoestring 2.5-3.5 million dollar budgets that student governments typically work with) and it's making Student Unions spiritually and academically hollow.
  - sotojuan 11y ago
    Interesting, I have noticed the same at my university and frankly I don't see the point of those jobs. All they do is raise tuition.
    - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
      I suspect that there are two points to those jobs. The not-really-stated point is that they keep the university from being sued for some student having bad judgment, by not letting the students have any judgment. The absolutely-not-stated point is that somebody got a cushy, well-paying job.
      - jMyles 11y ago
        I don't know the legal configuration of other states, but in SUNY, the SUNY administration is not liable for action or inaction on the part of student government. Sadly, the SUNY administration is largely not liable for action or inaction on the part of state officials either, who, in my experience, make worse decisions than students or faculty 100% of the time. (As some folks here already know,) I sued SUNY after being kicked out of school in an act of unambiguous political retaliation, and although I won an injunction, forcing my reinstatement, the state officials involved were granted complete immunity from suit. These events are documents in a documentary, Campus Coup: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL11F04BB4661C2CC3 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL11F04BB4661C2CC3
vlehto 11y ago
I had completely opposite experience in Aalto uni. Practically 18 year old kids coming fresh from high school. I was participating as student to decide on teaching practices. I suggested that deadlines would be systematically in the afternoon. Maybe 17:00. Some teachers had had problems when not assigning clear time, plain date means significant percentage of students turn in their assignments in the following day. But currently the time is often 8:00 in the morning. Which encourages some portion of the students to stay awake all night writing that assignment. Which reflects to all other studies they have that week. The response was "You're adults now, deal with it."

by jMyles 11y ago

veritas3241 11y ago

I've noticed this as well. My fiancee attends a school to train Nurse Anesthetists. All of the students are previously professional nurses with multi-year work experiences. The school treats all of them like children. They treat them like they're not professionals and they're incapable of being responsible. As an outsider, it's the most frustrating thing in the world because I just want to slap these people and knock some reason and respect into them. It doesn't help too that it's a Seventh-Day Adventist school and we're both atheists. But it's the only school in town so...

sotojuan 11y ago

I wonder how much this has to do with the general baby-ing of people of all ages. Kids don't play outside in the woods any more, parents pick up kids from their bus stops, etc. Is this because parents complained?

jMyles 11y ago
I can't speak, or at least not much, to the changes that occurred in the 70's. But they are still happening today, and they are decidedly NOT in response to parents. At all. In fact, parents have very little power to effect change at a SUNY school as far as I can tell. Rather, these seem to be directives coming from Albany (or beyond) and disseminated at conferences that are attended by Student Life "professionals." For example, go to just about any state school (including a SUNY) and take a walk around the Student Union. I'll bet that you'll notice that it is swarming with state officials - typically students who work part time for the state in a "Student Activities" office. Maybe you'll see one of their managers, a "Director of Student Union Services" or something similar. Ask how many people worked in that office 10 years ago vs. today, and I'll bet that, more often than not, you'll find that the size of these offices have increased by 50% or more during that time. The consequence is that student governments, who traditionally ran all the operations of Student Unions and did a great job of it, are now pushed out of this function, in favor of state officials and state directives running them instead. And these state directives almost always include infantifacation of events and decor in the Student Union. I have observed this phenomenon at SUNY New Paltz, Binghamton University, the University of Connecticut, UMD College Park (although the food co-cop there is amazing and serves as a partial counter-example) and half a dozen other campuses. Every time I ask about it, I'm told that it's part of a nationwide trend. It's bullshit. It's very expensive (compared to the shoestring 2.5-3.5 million dollar budgets that student governments typically work with) and it's making Student Unions spiritually and academically hollow.
- sotojuan 11y ago
  Interesting, I have noticed the same at my university and frankly I don't see the point of those jobs. All they do is raise tuition.
  - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
    I suspect that there are two points to those jobs. The not-really-stated point is that they keep the university from being sued for some student having bad judgment, by not letting the students have any judgment. The absolutely-not-stated point is that somebody got a cushy, well-paying job.
    - jMyles 11y ago
      I don't know the legal configuration of other states, but in SUNY, the SUNY administration is not liable for action or inaction on the part of student government. Sadly, the SUNY administration is largely not liable for action or inaction on the part of state officials either, who, in my experience, make worse decisions than students or faculty 100% of the time. (As some folks here already know,) I sued SUNY after being kicked out of school in an act of unambiguous political retaliation, and although I won an injunction, forcing my reinstatement, the state officials involved were granted complete immunity from suit. These events are documents in a documentary, Campus Coup: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL11F04BB4661C2CC3 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL11F04BB4661C2CC3

vlehto 11y ago

I had completely opposite experience in Aalto uni. Practically 18 year old kids coming fresh from high school. I was participating as student to decide on teaching practices. I suggested that deadlines would be systematically in the afternoon. Maybe 17:00. Some teachers had had problems when not assigning clear time, plain date means significant percentage of students turn in their assignments in the following day. But currently the time is often 8:00 in the morning. Which encourages some portion of the students to stay awake all night writing that assignment. Which reflects to all other studies they have that week. The response was "You're adults now, deal with it."