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Learning only happens when there are consequences for being wrong. Aside from being ridiculed by people they disagree with and thus don't care about being ridic

Learning only happens when there are consequences for being wrong. Aside from being ridiculed by people they disagree with and thus don't care about being ridiculed by, they have faced no consequences.

tankenmate 11y ago
Ridicule is a consequence, bring back the stocks I say! (only half joking...)
- wstrange 11y ago
  I think the modern equivalent is called Twitter
intortus 11y ago
You're trying overly hard to rationalize something here.
afarrell 11y ago
> Learning only happens when there are consequences for being wrong If I'm writing a toy project to teach myself WebGL, what are the consequences for doing something incorrectly and later having to debug it?
- merpnderp 11y ago
  Aren't the bugs the consequence? Or it not working correctly? The framerate being to low? I taught myself WebGL by making planet sized spherical terrains. There were consequences just about every single moment I was doing this.
- programmarchy 11y ago
  The consequence is your toy project won't work, and you'll have to find a solution. In doing so, you probably won't make the same mistake again, hopefully having learned something.
- ahtierney 11y ago
  I would argue the act of debugging it is the consequence. You assume something to be correct (or make a stupid mistake), you face the fact that it's not, you adjust your behavior and gain insight into facing the problem again. Same thing applies to social experience, the difference is in WebGL there is something approximating a 'right way.' I never thought Yoga would be contentious, some people do, now I'll think about it and try and understand why they feel that way.
  - merpnderp 11y ago
    It is impossible to prove a yoga class at a university harms a culture. It is easily provable that forcing these people not to meet on campus as a group does real actual harm. And I don't care about their feelings, I care about fairness and justice.
    - ahtierney 11y ago
      I think the argument would be more along the lines of: "You're calling this Yoga, but here is what Yoga has meant historically in my culture, which is actually quite different." I think the types of behaviors people attribute to PC nazis or similar are understandable responses by groups of people who are usually ignored by the mainstream so they raise a stink (read: pay attention to us or else!). Conversely putting people into that box usually comes from groups who are (like myself) historically highly empowered and have the luxury of intellectualizing things that are more in the corporeal/emotional realm for the groups they're critiquing (ie. stereotyping, mockery, physical abuse). I think fairness and justice are highly subjective and can only be gleaned by carful consideration of both sides, which is to say understanding why they have their "feelings" and why you don't care about them.
      - ThatGeoGuy 11y ago
        > I think the argument would be more along the lines of: "You're calling this Yoga, but here is what Yoga has meant historically in my culture, which is actually quite different." This argument was actually made in the case of the University of Ottawa. The yoga instructor even offered to rename the class to "mindful stretching" so as not to associate it with the spiritual and cultural aspects of yoga / Yogi Practice, but was still shut down by the student's union because they felt that it was gentrifying and demonstrated cultural appropriation. Personally I think the vast majority of culture has been stolen or replicated from older cultures and I don't think that having a stretching class really constitutes some kind of injustice just because it is derived from traditional yoga.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
wpietri 11y ago
One, international ridicule is a notable consequence. Two, you have no idea what else has happened to them, so you have no grounds for suggesting they have experienced nothing that might aid them in learning. Three, most useful motivation for learning is intrinsic, not extrinsic, so what matters most for their learning is their own opinions on what happened, another thing you don't have access to.

tankenmate 11y ago

Ridicule is a consequence, bring back the stocks I say! (only half joking...)

wstrange 11y ago
I think the modern equivalent is called Twitter

intortus 11y ago

You're trying overly hard to rationalize something here.

afarrell 11y ago

> Learning only happens when there are consequences for being wrong If I'm writing a toy project to teach myself WebGL, what are the consequences for doing something incorrectly and later having to debug it?

merpnderp 11y ago
Aren't the bugs the consequence? Or it not working correctly? The framerate being to low? I taught myself WebGL by making planet sized spherical terrains. There were consequences just about every single moment I was doing this.
programmarchy 11y ago
The consequence is your toy project won't work, and you'll have to find a solution. In doing so, you probably won't make the same mistake again, hopefully having learned something.
ahtierney 11y ago
I would argue the act of debugging it is the consequence. You assume something to be correct (or make a stupid mistake), you face the fact that it's not, you adjust your behavior and gain insight into facing the problem again. Same thing applies to social experience, the difference is in WebGL there is something approximating a 'right way.' I never thought Yoga would be contentious, some people do, now I'll think about it and try and understand why they feel that way.
- merpnderp 11y ago
  It is impossible to prove a yoga class at a university harms a culture. It is easily provable that forcing these people not to meet on campus as a group does real actual harm. And I don't care about their feelings, I care about fairness and justice.
  - ahtierney 11y ago
    I think the argument would be more along the lines of: "You're calling this Yoga, but here is what Yoga has meant historically in my culture, which is actually quite different." I think the types of behaviors people attribute to PC nazis or similar are understandable responses by groups of people who are usually ignored by the mainstream so they raise a stink (read: pay attention to us or else!). Conversely putting people into that box usually comes from groups who are (like myself) historically highly empowered and have the luxury of intellectualizing things that are more in the corporeal/emotional realm for the groups they're critiquing (ie. stereotyping, mockery, physical abuse). I think fairness and justice are highly subjective and can only be gleaned by carful consideration of both sides, which is to say understanding why they have their "feelings" and why you don't care about them.
    - ThatGeoGuy 11y ago
      > I think the argument would be more along the lines of: "You're calling this Yoga, but here is what Yoga has meant historically in my culture, which is actually quite different." This argument was actually made in the case of the University of Ottawa. The yoga instructor even offered to rename the class to "mindful stretching" so as not to associate it with the spiritual and cultural aspects of yoga / Yogi Practice, but was still shut down by the student's union because they felt that it was gentrifying and demonstrated cultural appropriation. Personally I think the vast majority of culture has been stolen or replicated from older cultures and I don't think that having a stretching class really constitutes some kind of injustice just because it is derived from traditional yoga.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

wpietri 11y ago

One, international ridicule is a notable consequence. Two, you have no idea what else has happened to them, so you have no grounds for suggesting they have experienced nothing that might aid them in learning. Three, most useful motivation for learning is intrinsic, not extrinsic, so what matters most for their learning is their own opinions on what happened, another thing you don't have access to.