6 ms·

I gotta say, anecdotally, this is what I often find ... the people complaining about political correctness, are those that have in the past been openly racist,

I gotta say, anecdotally, this is what I often find ... the people complaining about political correctness, are those that have in the past been openly racist, or at a minimum, fond of racially charged jokes (ie. "black people are great, everyone should own one"). They are chafing against a cultural change that no longer appreciates and/or tolerates behavior like that.

talmand 11y ago
Well, anecdotally, I often find that being used as an easy excuse to dismiss someone's concerns without having to address the concerns.
- pitay 11y ago
  I totally agree. I have had people blaming me for making them depressed when I was refuting someone saying 'you get out what was put into it', which I thought was complete bullshit the way he was saying it. I was saying that a lot of success is due to chance, and that a lot of life events are due to chance. This got people some people saying that what I was saying was horribly depressing. The guy then proceeded to lecture me that my attitude was what was letting me down in something that I never did, and was irrelevant anyway. And that 'I may not have intended it, but that my actions are causing misery' (because I did apologize to people that saying that they were horribly depressed by me saying that life has chance in it, because I felt the need to be conciliatory). That is what happened when I tried to be honest and disagree with someone spouting feel good bullshit or whatever else made him look good. A complete frigging cesspool.
  - talmand 11y ago
    Don't apologize because of such nonsense, it only encourages the behavior.
  - Anthony-G 11y ago
    That sounds like a tragic case of shooting the messenger. The sad outcome is that people learn to keep their mouths shut rather than tell unpalatable truths - and it's the whole group that loses out in the long fun.
- CodeCube 11y ago
  What concerns exactly are you referring to? If I hear someone expressing a view that I dislike, I'm well within my rights to do any or all of the following things: a) stop associating with this individual b) let them know that I dislike the view they've expressed. Choosing to do both a) and b) is a normal social response, and the individual that finds themselves expressing views that go against the cultural majority will find themselves in an awkward position. If this view being expressed is worth expressing, then unfortunately the individual will have to endure hardships in order to get the message out and convince the masses ... much like MLKjr being willing to go to jail to communicate the idea that civil rights were for all. So if someone wants to share racist jokes, then toughen up that skin and let the vitriol fly! They should be proud of what they are and let everyone know ... if it's a worthy viewpoint, they'll find others will rally to their cause; and if not, they'll find themselves awkwardly cast out by their social circle (or at least, their social circle's kids/younger generation).
wpietri 11y ago
Yeah. As a white guy, I get that our current loss of privilege feels like a loss. Change is always uncomfortable, so I can see why people would be inclined to push back. And I get that we all learned to express privilege partly through behaviors that conveniently just happen to maintain privilege (behaviors like those racist jokes). But still, it's frustrating how many people who supposedly pride themselves on their incisive intellects refuse to even consider that there might be something going on besides "political correctness". This Wondermark cartoon captures the dynamic for me: http://wondermark.com/1k71/ http://wondermark.com/1k71/
- philh 11y ago
  People aren't just scared of being forbidden from making racist jokes. People are scared of being forbidden to express opinions. Like, here's someone who was fired for saying someone else shouldn't have been fired: http://www.gamerevolution.com/manifesto/turtle-rock-community-manager-understandably-fired-for-donald-sterling-tweets-25601 http://www.gamerevolution.com/manifesto/turtle-rock-communit... And it makes me pretty uncomfortable when people express "fear of being attacked for doing something that's okay", and other people turn that into "fear of being attacked for doing something that's not okay", and attack them for it.
  - Frondo 11y ago
    A smart, capable community manager like Josh Olin should have no problem finding work with another game studio--one that would be OK with his public defense of the bigoted views of that basketball team owner. Maybe there aren't a lot of employers around who want to hire someone who promotes the view that "bigotry is OK," but surely there's at least one.
    - philh 11y ago
      I've said that someone shouldn't have been fired for what they said, and you've said they can get another job. That is not reassuring. You've also turned a defense of a person into a defense of their views. You've turned "someone shouldn't be fired for bigotry" into "bigotry is okay". That is not reassuring either.

talmand 11y ago

Well, anecdotally, I often find that being used as an easy excuse to dismiss someone's concerns without having to address the concerns.

pitay 11y ago
I totally agree. I have had people blaming me for making them depressed when I was refuting someone saying 'you get out what was put into it', which I thought was complete bullshit the way he was saying it. I was saying that a lot of success is due to chance, and that a lot of life events are due to chance. This got people some people saying that what I was saying was horribly depressing. The guy then proceeded to lecture me that my attitude was what was letting me down in something that I never did, and was irrelevant anyway. And that 'I may not have intended it, but that my actions are causing misery' (because I did apologize to people that saying that they were horribly depressed by me saying that life has chance in it, because I felt the need to be conciliatory). That is what happened when I tried to be honest and disagree with someone spouting feel good bullshit or whatever else made him look good. A complete frigging cesspool.
- talmand 11y ago
  Don't apologize because of such nonsense, it only encourages the behavior.
- Anthony-G 11y ago
  That sounds like a tragic case of shooting the messenger. The sad outcome is that people learn to keep their mouths shut rather than tell unpalatable truths - and it's the whole group that loses out in the long fun.
CodeCube 11y ago
What concerns exactly are you referring to? If I hear someone expressing a view that I dislike, I'm well within my rights to do any or all of the following things: a) stop associating with this individual b) let them know that I dislike the view they've expressed. Choosing to do both a) and b) is a normal social response, and the individual that finds themselves expressing views that go against the cultural majority will find themselves in an awkward position. If this view being expressed is worth expressing, then unfortunately the individual will have to endure hardships in order to get the message out and convince the masses ... much like MLKjr being willing to go to jail to communicate the idea that civil rights were for all. So if someone wants to share racist jokes, then toughen up that skin and let the vitriol fly! They should be proud of what they are and let everyone know ... if it's a worthy viewpoint, they'll find others will rally to their cause; and if not, they'll find themselves awkwardly cast out by their social circle (or at least, their social circle's kids/younger generation).

wpietri 11y ago

Yeah. As a white guy, I get that our current loss of privilege feels like a loss. Change is always uncomfortable, so I can see why people would be inclined to push back. And I get that we all learned to express privilege partly through behaviors that conveniently just happen to maintain privilege (behaviors like those racist jokes). But still, it's frustrating how many people who supposedly pride themselves on their incisive intellects refuse to even consider that there might be something going on besides "political correctness". This Wondermark cartoon captures the dynamic for me: http://wondermark.com/1k71/ http://wondermark.com/1k71/

philh 11y ago
People aren't just scared of being forbidden from making racist jokes. People are scared of being forbidden to express opinions. Like, here's someone who was fired for saying someone else shouldn't have been fired: http://www.gamerevolution.com/manifesto/turtle-rock-community-manager-understandably-fired-for-donald-sterling-tweets-25601 http://www.gamerevolution.com/manifesto/turtle-rock-communit... And it makes me pretty uncomfortable when people express "fear of being attacked for doing something that's okay", and other people turn that into "fear of being attacked for doing something that's not okay", and attack them for it.
- Frondo 11y ago
  A smart, capable community manager like Josh Olin should have no problem finding work with another game studio--one that would be OK with his public defense of the bigoted views of that basketball team owner. Maybe there aren't a lot of employers around who want to hire someone who promotes the view that "bigotry is OK," but surely there's at least one.
  - philh 11y ago
    I've said that someone shouldn't have been fired for what they said, and you've said they can get another job. That is not reassuring. You've also turned a defense of a person into a defense of their views. You've turned "someone shouldn't be fired for bigotry" into "bigotry is okay". That is not reassuring either.