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>Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". I'm not directly disagreeing with you here

>Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". I'm not directly disagreeing with you here or putting words in your mouth. I realize you are not saying safe spaces should not exist. Instead I want to make the argument that having safe spaces is reasonable. People make safe spaces _within_ universities and other institutions for the same reason some combat veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder put up signs asking neighbors not to set off fireworks[0]. It is to avoid triggering people that have have experienced serious trauma[1]. For instance using the combat veteran example, it would be unreasonable for a veteran to attend a fireworks show and then complain about the fireworks, but if this same combat veteran was attending University and it would be reasonable to ask the University to provide a safe space away from fireworks or other triggers -- sound proofed dorms if students are constantly setting off fireworks. There is a big difference in intention between 'safety from conflicting points of view' and safe spaces. Although a safe space sometimes requires limiting certain discussions (a person who was sexuality assaulted might be triggered by discussions and depictions of sexual assault). [0]: http://www.militarywithptsd.org/fireworks-triggers-ptsd-and-veterans/ http://www.militarywithptsd.org/fireworks-triggers-ptsd-and-... [1]: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd/index.shtml http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/post-traumatic-stress-...

ucaetano 11y ago
I agree with most of the points you made, specially that there must be safe spaces, but I don't think an university classroom should be one of them. Your home? Yes. A doctor's office? Yes. The student counsellor's office in the university? Yes. And so on. "Although a safe space sometimes requires limiting certain discussions" That makes no sense in a university IMHO. Students could be excused of classes due to previous traumatic experiences, not the other way around. No discussion should be silenced because the topic triggers or bothers someone. Sure, we can be sensitive about it, and take precautionary measures (warn the students in advance of the topic, etc.), but at absolutely no point, IMHO, should a discussion in an university be limited because it bothers, annoys, disrespects or triggers someone. Yes, that opens room for some awful, violent and disrespectful points of view, but so many pillars of modern society were once those same awful, violent and disrespectful POVs.
- ebola1717 11y ago
  The cases where people are asking for classrooms to be "Safe Spaces" the way you're describing them are the minority. Most people are asking for exactly what you're suggesting - provide warnings for people that might need to remove themselves, but have uncomfortable discussions in the classroom. The whole idea of a "trigger warning" doesn't work any other way. At Mizzou, they demanded a separate "safe space" because they were literally being sent death threats, which is a separate way to use the idea, and which, in the light of the past week's events, were not unwarranted.
HelloNurse 11y ago
There is a big difference between having a problem with fireworks and having a problem with religion, like in the OP. Asking for a "safe space" where you don't have to deal with your conscience is horribly absurd.
- EthanHeilman 11y ago
  Agreed, that is why I said I wasn't disagreeing with the OP. My concern is that silly things which people do, like say complaining about being made to feel guilty, will be used to paint safe spaces as 'silly' or 'unnecessary' when in fact safe spaces provide a very valuable function.
- nmrm2 11y ago
  > Asking for a "safe space" where you don't have to deal with your conscience is horribly absurd. You act as if "conscience" is an objecively good thing, and not just the result of a bunch of totally arbitrary social expectations. Gay people who grew up in conservative families often have a conscience that makes them feel bad about being gay. Gay people looking for safe spaces where they aren't reminded that they spent 18 years being told they are bad people is imminently reasonable. Abused wives often feel guilty about leaving their husbands. Finding safe spaces where they don't have to feel guilty about doing the right thing is imminently reasonable. So, no, it's not unreasonable to find places where you don't have to "deal with your conscience"
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > Asking for a "safe space" where you don't have to deal with your conscience is horribly absurd. Asking for safe space where you don't have to worry about others trying to manipulate your conscience, OTOH, is not unreasonable. At the same time, expecting formal services at the on-campus chapel of what is overtly an evangelical Christian university to be that safe space is somewhat unreasonable. (Which is not to say that Dr. Piper's letter is itself a reasonable response to the scenario it describes.)
tdkl 11y ago
Veterans actually did something. Students are being used to nannying while acting as adults. Actually this behavior is just because of peace time in todays western world. If students were afraid of actually being in danger, they wouldn't bitch about these things.

ucaetano 11y ago

I agree with most of the points you made, specially that there must be safe spaces, but I don't think an university classroom should be one of them. Your home? Yes. A doctor's office? Yes. The student counsellor's office in the university? Yes. And so on. "Although a safe space sometimes requires limiting certain discussions" That makes no sense in a university IMHO. Students could be excused of classes due to previous traumatic experiences, not the other way around. No discussion should be silenced because the topic triggers or bothers someone. Sure, we can be sensitive about it, and take precautionary measures (warn the students in advance of the topic, etc.), but at absolutely no point, IMHO, should a discussion in an university be limited because it bothers, annoys, disrespects or triggers someone. Yes, that opens room for some awful, violent and disrespectful points of view, but so many pillars of modern society were once those same awful, violent and disrespectful POVs.

ebola1717 11y ago
The cases where people are asking for classrooms to be "Safe Spaces" the way you're describing them are the minority. Most people are asking for exactly what you're suggesting - provide warnings for people that might need to remove themselves, but have uncomfortable discussions in the classroom. The whole idea of a "trigger warning" doesn't work any other way. At Mizzou, they demanded a separate "safe space" because they were literally being sent death threats, which is a separate way to use the idea, and which, in the light of the past week's events, were not unwarranted.

HelloNurse 11y ago

There is a big difference between having a problem with fireworks and having a problem with religion, like in the OP. Asking for a "safe space" where you don't have to deal with your conscience is horribly absurd.

EthanHeilman 11y ago
Agreed, that is why I said I wasn't disagreeing with the OP. My concern is that silly things which people do, like say complaining about being made to feel guilty, will be used to paint safe spaces as 'silly' or 'unnecessary' when in fact safe spaces provide a very valuable function.
nmrm2 11y ago
> Asking for a "safe space" where you don't have to deal with your conscience is horribly absurd. You act as if "conscience" is an objecively good thing, and not just the result of a bunch of totally arbitrary social expectations. Gay people who grew up in conservative families often have a conscience that makes them feel bad about being gay. Gay people looking for safe spaces where they aren't reminded that they spent 18 years being told they are bad people is imminently reasonable. Abused wives often feel guilty about leaving their husbands. Finding safe spaces where they don't have to feel guilty about doing the right thing is imminently reasonable. So, no, it's not unreasonable to find places where you don't have to "deal with your conscience"
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Asking for a "safe space" where you don't have to deal with your conscience is horribly absurd. Asking for safe space where you don't have to worry about others trying to manipulate your conscience, OTOH, is not unreasonable. At the same time, expecting formal services at the on-campus chapel of what is overtly an evangelical Christian university to be that safe space is somewhat unreasonable. (Which is not to say that Dr. Piper's letter is itself a reasonable response to the scenario it describes.)

tdkl 11y ago

Veterans actually did something. Students are being used to nannying while acting as adults. Actually this behavior is just because of peace time in todays western world. If students were afraid of actually being in danger, they wouldn't bitch about these things.