6 ms·

"Having spent far more than my fair share of time around University students (11 years), I can assure you that the complaint is likely what the student said. It

"Having spent far more than my fair share of time around University students (11 years), I can assure you that the complaint is likely what the student said. It smells very much like what students today are saying." I guess I have different students because I've been teaching college since 2000 and have never had any complaints like this and neither have any of my friends.

Overtonwindow 11y ago
What subject do you teach? I was talking to an old physics professor of mine and he said the same thing, but my former psych professor was completely the opposite. Maybe it's a subject-related issue?
- JulianMorrison 11y ago
  Could also be related to the person. A prof who's being racist will receive more criticism for being racist, and will have more cause to complain of "political correctness".
  - CodeCube 11y ago
    I gotta say, anecdotally, this is what I often find ... the people complaining about political correctness, are those that have in the past been openly racist, or at a minimum, fond of racially charged jokes (ie. "black people are great, everyone should own one"). They are chafing against a cultural change that no longer appreciates and/or tolerates behavior like that.
    - talmand 11y ago
      Well, anecdotally, I often find that being used as an easy excuse to dismiss someone's concerns without having to address the concerns.
      - pitay 11y ago
        I totally agree. I have had people blaming me for making them depressed when I was refuting someone saying 'you get out what was put into it', which I thought was complete bullshit the way he was saying it. I was saying that a lot of success is due to chance, and that a lot of life events are due to chance. This got people some people saying that what I was saying was horribly depressing. The guy then proceeded to lecture me that my attitude was what was letting me down in something that I never did, and was irrelevant anyway. And that 'I may not have intended it, but that my actions are causing misery' (because I did apologize to people that saying that they were horribly depressed by me saying that life has chance in it, because I felt the need to be conciliatory). That is what happened when I tried to be honest and disagree with someone spouting feel good bullshit or whatever else made him look good. A complete frigging cesspool.
        talmand 11y ago
        Don't apologize because of such nonsense, it only encourages the behavior.
        Anthony-G 11y ago
        That sounds like a tragic case of shooting the messenger. The sad outcome is that people learn to keep their mouths shut rather than tell unpalatable truths - and it's the whole group that loses out in the long fun.
      - CodeCube 11y ago
        What concerns exactly are you referring to? If I hear someone expressing a view that I dislike, I'm well within my rights to do any or all of the following things: a) stop associating with this individual b) let them know that I dislike the view they've expressed. Choosing to do both a) and b) is a normal social response, and the individual that finds themselves expressing views that go against the cultural majority will find themselves in an awkward position. If this view being expressed is worth expressing, then unfortunately the individual will have to endure hardships in order to get the message out and convince the masses ... much like MLKjr being willing to go to jail to communicate the idea that civil rights were for all. So if someone wants to share racist jokes, then toughen up that skin and let the vitriol fly! They should be proud of what they are and let everyone know ... if it's a worthy viewpoint, they'll find others will rally to their cause; and if not, they'll find themselves awkwardly cast out by their social circle (or at least, their social circle's kids/younger generation).
    - wpietri 11y ago
      Yeah. As a white guy, I get that our current loss of privilege feels like a loss. Change is always uncomfortable, so I can see why people would be inclined to push back. And I get that we all learned to express privilege partly through behaviors that conveniently just happen to maintain privilege (behaviors like those racist jokes). But still, it's frustrating how many people who supposedly pride themselves on their incisive intellects refuse to even consider that there might be something going on besides "political correctness". This Wondermark cartoon captures the dynamic for me: http://wondermark.com/1k71/ http://wondermark.com/1k71/
      - philh 11y ago
        People aren't just scared of being forbidden from making racist jokes. People are scared of being forbidden to express opinions. Like, here's someone who was fired for saying someone else shouldn't have been fired: http://www.gamerevolution.com/manifesto/turtle-rock-community-manager-understandably-fired-for-donald-sterling-tweets-25601 http://www.gamerevolution.com/manifesto/turtle-rock-communit... And it makes me pretty uncomfortable when people express "fear of being attacked for doing something that's okay", and other people turn that into "fear of being attacked for doing something that's not okay", and attack them for it.
        Frondo 11y ago
        A smart, capable community manager like Josh Olin should have no problem finding work with another game studio--one that would be OK with his public defense of the bigoted views of that basketball team owner. Maybe there aren't a lot of employers around who want to hire someone who promotes the view that "bigotry is OK," but surely there's at least one.
        philh 11y ago
        I've said that someone shouldn't have been fired for what they said, and you've said they can get another job. That is not reassuring. You've also turned a defense of a person into a defense of their views. You've turned "someone shouldn't be fired for bigotry" into "bigotry is okay". That is not reassuring either.
- jccalhoun 11y ago
  I teach cultural studies-related things and nearly all of my friends who are college profs are as well. I talk about race and gender regularly. The only non-grade related complaint I've ever gotten was that I used swear words in class - which would be hard not to do when one of the readings was about swearing...
  - 6stringmerc 11y ago
    I'm not trying to be glib but in my experience it's cutural studies mentalities applied to hard science courses (like biology for non-majors) or artistic roundtable formats (like creative writing workshops) where issues of race, gender, and feelings are inappropriately applied as 'arbiters' of "how" things are to be discussed. My apology if not totally clear, but the jist of what I'm getting at is my impression of cultural studies is that the inherent inclusiveness of 'perspectives' doesn't really challenge students, but predominately allows an arena for affirmation. I suppose what I mean is that based on the nature of the subject matter, an excellent rhetorical essay framing genocide of a certain culture can't really be criticized as 'bad thinking' if the structuring of the argument and included reasoning are sound, though the very concept itself is abhorrent in its premise.
MollyR 11y ago
Probably depends on the school, I've saw it as a student, but I have friends from engineering colleges who said they didn't see much of it.

Overtonwindow 11y ago

What subject do you teach? I was talking to an old physics professor of mine and he said the same thing, but my former psych professor was completely the opposite. Maybe it's a subject-related issue?

JulianMorrison 11y ago
Could also be related to the person. A prof who's being racist will receive more criticism for being racist, and will have more cause to complain of "political correctness".
- CodeCube 11y ago
  I gotta say, anecdotally, this is what I often find ... the people complaining about political correctness, are those that have in the past been openly racist, or at a minimum, fond of racially charged jokes (ie. "black people are great, everyone should own one"). They are chafing against a cultural change that no longer appreciates and/or tolerates behavior like that.
  - talmand 11y ago
    Well, anecdotally, I often find that being used as an easy excuse to dismiss someone's concerns without having to address the concerns.
    - pitay 11y ago
      I totally agree. I have had people blaming me for making them depressed when I was refuting someone saying 'you get out what was put into it', which I thought was complete bullshit the way he was saying it. I was saying that a lot of success is due to chance, and that a lot of life events are due to chance. This got people some people saying that what I was saying was horribly depressing. The guy then proceeded to lecture me that my attitude was what was letting me down in something that I never did, and was irrelevant anyway. And that 'I may not have intended it, but that my actions are causing misery' (because I did apologize to people that saying that they were horribly depressed by me saying that life has chance in it, because I felt the need to be conciliatory). That is what happened when I tried to be honest and disagree with someone spouting feel good bullshit or whatever else made him look good. A complete frigging cesspool.
      - talmand 11y ago
        Don't apologize because of such nonsense, it only encourages the behavior.
      - Anthony-G 11y ago
        That sounds like a tragic case of shooting the messenger. The sad outcome is that people learn to keep their mouths shut rather than tell unpalatable truths - and it's the whole group that loses out in the long fun.
    - CodeCube 11y ago
      What concerns exactly are you referring to? If I hear someone expressing a view that I dislike, I'm well within my rights to do any or all of the following things: a) stop associating with this individual b) let them know that I dislike the view they've expressed. Choosing to do both a) and b) is a normal social response, and the individual that finds themselves expressing views that go against the cultural majority will find themselves in an awkward position. If this view being expressed is worth expressing, then unfortunately the individual will have to endure hardships in order to get the message out and convince the masses ... much like MLKjr being willing to go to jail to communicate the idea that civil rights were for all. So if someone wants to share racist jokes, then toughen up that skin and let the vitriol fly! They should be proud of what they are and let everyone know ... if it's a worthy viewpoint, they'll find others will rally to their cause; and if not, they'll find themselves awkwardly cast out by their social circle (or at least, their social circle's kids/younger generation).
  - wpietri 11y ago
    Yeah. As a white guy, I get that our current loss of privilege feels like a loss. Change is always uncomfortable, so I can see why people would be inclined to push back. And I get that we all learned to express privilege partly through behaviors that conveniently just happen to maintain privilege (behaviors like those racist jokes). But still, it's frustrating how many people who supposedly pride themselves on their incisive intellects refuse to even consider that there might be something going on besides "political correctness". This Wondermark cartoon captures the dynamic for me: http://wondermark.com/1k71/ http://wondermark.com/1k71/
    - philh 11y ago
      People aren't just scared of being forbidden from making racist jokes. People are scared of being forbidden to express opinions. Like, here's someone who was fired for saying someone else shouldn't have been fired: http://www.gamerevolution.com/manifesto/turtle-rock-community-manager-understandably-fired-for-donald-sterling-tweets-25601 http://www.gamerevolution.com/manifesto/turtle-rock-communit... And it makes me pretty uncomfortable when people express "fear of being attacked for doing something that's okay", and other people turn that into "fear of being attacked for doing something that's not okay", and attack them for it.
      - Frondo 11y ago
        A smart, capable community manager like Josh Olin should have no problem finding work with another game studio--one that would be OK with his public defense of the bigoted views of that basketball team owner. Maybe there aren't a lot of employers around who want to hire someone who promotes the view that "bigotry is OK," but surely there's at least one.
        philh 11y ago
        I've said that someone shouldn't have been fired for what they said, and you've said they can get another job. That is not reassuring. You've also turned a defense of a person into a defense of their views. You've turned "someone shouldn't be fired for bigotry" into "bigotry is okay". That is not reassuring either.
jccalhoun 11y ago
I teach cultural studies-related things and nearly all of my friends who are college profs are as well. I talk about race and gender regularly. The only non-grade related complaint I've ever gotten was that I used swear words in class - which would be hard not to do when one of the readings was about swearing...
- 6stringmerc 11y ago
  I'm not trying to be glib but in my experience it's cutural studies mentalities applied to hard science courses (like biology for non-majors) or artistic roundtable formats (like creative writing workshops) where issues of race, gender, and feelings are inappropriately applied as 'arbiters' of "how" things are to be discussed. My apology if not totally clear, but the jist of what I'm getting at is my impression of cultural studies is that the inherent inclusiveness of 'perspectives' doesn't really challenge students, but predominately allows an arena for affirmation. I suppose what I mean is that based on the nature of the subject matter, an excellent rhetorical essay framing genocide of a certain culture can't really be criticized as 'bad thinking' if the structuring of the argument and included reasoning are sound, though the very concept itself is abhorrent in its premise.

MollyR 11y ago

Probably depends on the school, I've saw it as a student, but I have friends from engineering colleges who said they didn't see much of it.