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Indeed. Either the complainant is a troll, or doesn't exist. No normal person would attend a sermon at the chapel of a given faith, and complain that the sermo

by frobozz 11y ago

Indeed. Either the complainant is a troll, or doesn't exist. No normal person would attend a sermon at the chapel of a given faith, and complain that the sermon victimises them for being a poor practitioner of that faith. This is doubly true when its about something universal like love, rather than how well you practice some specific ritual.

victorhooi 11y ago
Do you have any evidence of this claim (that it's a troll or "doesn't exist"), other than just your assertion that no normal person would do this? I can assure you that I know plenty of young people who would do something like this - heck, I'm a young person (and also a Christian), and whilst I probably wouldn't be brave enough to actually approach a lecturer and voice such thoughts, I am sure that in a moment of weakness I could certainly think such things internally (which in some sense, is nearly or just as bad). So my assertion is based both on knowing my own peers and being honest about myself. When somebody calls us out for something, it's only natural to want to blame somebody else - it takes an incredible amount of self-awareness and discipline to immediately jump to self-reflection, without trying to pass the buck. Sure, we may get there in the end, but it's often a journey of various emotions to get to that epiphany. Are you saying you are one of those people? Or that you believe most people are like that?
- chimeracoder 11y ago
  > When somebody calls us out for something, it's only natural to want to blame somebody else - it takes an incredible amount of self-awareness and discipline to immediately jump to self-reflection, without trying to pass the buck. Well, this goes both ways. Like most HN threads on this topic, this discussion is largely full of reactions against perceived "victimization", devoid of any self-reflection about what merit the complaints might actually have.
  - skj 11y ago
    I like to replace the phrase "politically correct" with "respectful treatment of individuals" or "empathy".
- frobozz 11y ago
  No, I have no evidence at all. It's just my assertion. Would you really attend a sermon at the chapel of either your own chosen faith or someone else's and lodge a complaint that the cleric's commentary on love made you feel bad for not showing love? What, exactly, would motivate you to do such a thing? Surely, in the context of a religious sermon, either you're a believer and you should feel bad for not obeying the precepts, or you're not and it's all irrelevant?
  - victorhooi 11y ago
    It's rarely that black and white. Sure, there are things we know we should do - whether because of familial duties, social duties, or as in this case, our belief system, or our religion/creed. Then there are the things we want to do. Sure, we may know they're wrong, or know we'll regret them afterwards - but that's not to say we weren't tempted. And the human mind is wonderful at trying to justify doing "bad" things (where bad is whatever your own faith/belief system is). So I may be like, I'm a awesome Christian, I'm going to attend bible college, then when I get there, I hear a sermon that strikes a nerve and reveals some sin that I'm committing - I may try to justify myself, by saying, well, that doesn't really apply to me because of XYZ, or I may be like, that lecturer has it out for me, why is he targetting me when there's so many other sinners, I'm going to have a word with him! etc.
  - noxToken 11y ago
    But that's the thing about it. A sermon does not hit the same topic every time. Take homosexuality. As I was growing up, homosexuality was not a topic that was often covered. In most biblical circles (at least of the denomination that I attended) homosexuality was a black-and-white issue: it's wrong 100% of the time regardless of circumstances. In my high school years, I knew of 3 closeted gay people that attended my church. Since homosexuality was rarely talked about, you could reasonably assume that it may get talked about once a year - if that. On those days, however, I'm sure it felt as if the were being publicly lambasted for something they had no control over. I have never even considered myself bisexual, but it always made me extremely uncomfortable listening to sermons about homosexuality. I can only imagine how those people felt. This is a situation in which I feel that someone who otherwise attends a service regularly would feel the need to speak out.
JustSomeNobody 11y ago
Sure they do. People will complain about ... well ... just about anything.
afandian 11y ago
I don't know about your definition of 'normal' but I've seen plenty of videos recently (they tend to surface when things like the recent Yale activity happen) that have reminded me that there are people with views so irreconcilably far from my own that there's no point trying to second-guess what views anyone would or wouldn't hold.
lagadu 11y ago
Much like no true Scotsman would do such a thing?
HelloNurse 11y ago
No normal person. University students are abnormal until proved otherwise.
pbnjay 11y ago
Except at religious schools, generally chapel is not voluntary, but required. People tend to pick churches where they are NOT uncomfortable, versus in a college chapel they will be more edgy for just this reason - to get their students to actually think about issues.
- nightspirit 11y ago
  But the schools themselves are voluntary. I utterly fail to understand people who attend them and complain. (In fact, also those who don't complain, but that's another rant for another day...)
jazzyk 11y ago
You think? "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by frobozz 11y ago

victorhooi 11y ago

Do you have any evidence of this claim (that it's a troll or "doesn't exist"), other than just your assertion that no normal person would do this? I can assure you that I know plenty of young people who would do something like this - heck, I'm a young person (and also a Christian), and whilst I probably wouldn't be brave enough to actually approach a lecturer and voice such thoughts, I am sure that in a moment of weakness I could certainly think such things internally (which in some sense, is nearly or just as bad). So my assertion is based both on knowing my own peers and being honest about myself. When somebody calls us out for something, it's only natural to want to blame somebody else - it takes an incredible amount of self-awareness and discipline to immediately jump to self-reflection, without trying to pass the buck. Sure, we may get there in the end, but it's often a journey of various emotions to get to that epiphany. Are you saying you are one of those people? Or that you believe most people are like that?

chimeracoder 11y ago
> When somebody calls us out for something, it's only natural to want to blame somebody else - it takes an incredible amount of self-awareness and discipline to immediately jump to self-reflection, without trying to pass the buck. Well, this goes both ways. Like most HN threads on this topic, this discussion is largely full of reactions against perceived "victimization", devoid of any self-reflection about what merit the complaints might actually have.
- skj 11y ago
  I like to replace the phrase "politically correct" with "respectful treatment of individuals" or "empathy".
frobozz 11y ago
No, I have no evidence at all. It's just my assertion. Would you really attend a sermon at the chapel of either your own chosen faith or someone else's and lodge a complaint that the cleric's commentary on love made you feel bad for not showing love? What, exactly, would motivate you to do such a thing? Surely, in the context of a religious sermon, either you're a believer and you should feel bad for not obeying the precepts, or you're not and it's all irrelevant?
- victorhooi 11y ago
  It's rarely that black and white. Sure, there are things we know we should do - whether because of familial duties, social duties, or as in this case, our belief system, or our religion/creed. Then there are the things we want to do. Sure, we may know they're wrong, or know we'll regret them afterwards - but that's not to say we weren't tempted. And the human mind is wonderful at trying to justify doing "bad" things (where bad is whatever your own faith/belief system is). So I may be like, I'm a awesome Christian, I'm going to attend bible college, then when I get there, I hear a sermon that strikes a nerve and reveals some sin that I'm committing - I may try to justify myself, by saying, well, that doesn't really apply to me because of XYZ, or I may be like, that lecturer has it out for me, why is he targetting me when there's so many other sinners, I'm going to have a word with him! etc.
- noxToken 11y ago
  But that's the thing about it. A sermon does not hit the same topic every time. Take homosexuality. As I was growing up, homosexuality was not a topic that was often covered. In most biblical circles (at least of the denomination that I attended) homosexuality was a black-and-white issue: it's wrong 100% of the time regardless of circumstances. In my high school years, I knew of 3 closeted gay people that attended my church. Since homosexuality was rarely talked about, you could reasonably assume that it may get talked about once a year - if that. On those days, however, I'm sure it felt as if the were being publicly lambasted for something they had no control over. I have never even considered myself bisexual, but it always made me extremely uncomfortable listening to sermons about homosexuality. I can only imagine how those people felt. This is a situation in which I feel that someone who otherwise attends a service regularly would feel the need to speak out.

JustSomeNobody 11y ago

Sure they do. People will complain about ... well ... just about anything.

afandian 11y ago

I don't know about your definition of 'normal' but I've seen plenty of videos recently (they tend to surface when things like the recent Yale activity happen) that have reminded me that there are people with views so irreconcilably far from my own that there's no point trying to second-guess what views anyone would or wouldn't hold.

lagadu 11y ago

Much like no true Scotsman would do such a thing?

HelloNurse 11y ago

No normal person. University students are abnormal until proved otherwise.

pbnjay 11y ago

Except at religious schools, generally chapel is not voluntary, but required. People tend to pick churches where they are NOT uncomfortable, versus in a college chapel they will be more edgy for just this reason - to get their students to actually think about issues.

nightspirit 11y ago
But the schools themselves are voluntary. I utterly fail to understand people who attend them and complain. (In fact, also those who don't complain, but that's another rant for another day...)

jazzyk 11y ago

You think? "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein