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The REAL strawman is: "What's equally baffling is Ivy-league frat boys thinking that "free speech" entitles them to engage in conduct that would get them summa
by jorgeleo 11y ago
The REAL strawman is:
"What's equally baffling is Ivy-league frat boys thinking that "free speech" entitles them to engage in conduct that would get them summarily booted out in the real world."
- rayiner 11y agoIt is, at least allegedly, real conduct that was, among other things, the reason those Yale students were angry: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/11/02/students-accuse-yale-sae-fraternity-brothers-of-having-a-white-girls-only-policy-at-their-party https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/11/0.... Something real is by definition not a straw man.
- pitt1980 11y agolet's be concrete about what we're talking about ------------------ from your link: "A fraternity brother who was at the party gave an entirely different account than Petros-Gouin. Speaking on condition that his name not be used because chapter rules discourage speaking to the media, he said members of the house always ask for Yale IDs and let everyone in until a party gets crowded. After that, a line forms. That night, no one with a Yale ID was turned away before 11:15 p.m., the member said. Yale and New Haven police had responded to noise complaints at the party, and brothers were told not to let anyone else in, to avoid crowding. He said numerous students have said a woman who was denied entrance angrily challenged the man who stopped her, screaming: “It’s because I’m black, isn’t it?” It was uncomfortable, he said, in part because that brother is African American and others working the door at the time are Portuguese and Costa Rican; he described the chapter as racially diverse. He said some in Yale’s black community have called black SAE members “Uncle Tom” on Monday, making them feel like they are being forced to choose between siding with the fraternity or others of their race. “It has become incredibly hostile,” he said. He and another student who attended the party said the crowd inside was representative of the student body at Yale." -------------------- I see an incident of undetermined "real"(ness)
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- vox_mollis 11y agoThey turned away people from a party. From a PARTY. Not a job interview, not a restaurant, not a mortgage lender, not social services. A party. Social discrimination happens all the time. As a nerd, I've been (back in a time when nerds were shunned) uninvited or turned away from parties plenty of times. Nobody protested on my behalf. This entire brouhaha over people feeling not-as-popular-as-the-cool-sae-kids is ridiculous. Nobody has a right to social inclusion. The racial angle is a red herring. What happened to these women happens, often worse, to every socially-unpopular person on the planet.
- rayiner 11y agoThey were, allegedly, turned away from a party at a school-sponsored organization (a fraternity) on account of their race.
- tptacek 11y agoIs this a real comparison you are really making? Between discrimination against African Americans and discrimination against nerds?
- vox_mollis 11y agoI am, but only because there's no actual evidence that it was racially-motivated, beyond the feelings of the offended. It smacks to me of, going back to my nerd example, blaming factors outside of my own social ineptitude for not being included for social event X.
- mazelife 11y agoHere are some links that might interest you: http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2015/11/02/sae-denies-charges-of-racism/ http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2015/11/02/sae-denies-charges-... http://features.yaledailynews.com/blog/2015/04/16/harassment-at-sae-and-its-fallout/ http://features.yaledailynews.com/blog/2015/04/16/harassment... http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2011/05/17/miller-announces-dke-suspension/ http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2011/05/17/miller-announces-dk... http://qz.com/546403/yale-student-protests/ http://qz.com/546403/yale-student-protests/
- jorgeleo 11y agoFor some reason it is not letting me reply to the answer. Anyway: Definition of the strawman argument: "A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) The original article is put in a very specific context: a sermon about a very specific scripture on a theological university. It is not about Yale, it is not about free-speech. It is about the reaction of a self-centered student and how out of place he is; which I understand it is the point of lagadu, and it is why lagadu's comment is not a straw men argument. The fact that the Yale argument is true has no relevance with the context of the original discussion.