4 ms·

"Oklahoma Wesleyan is not a “safe place”, but rather, a place to learn" Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or

"Oklahoma Wesleyan is not a “safe place”, but rather, a place to learn" Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". They should not be safe places, they should be places where you feel confronted, challenged and threatened by different ideas and points of view.

maze-le 11y ago
>> challenged and threatened by different ideas and points of view That is one the problems I think. Some people (seems like the majority of young students nowdays) feel "challenged and threatened" personally, and not intellectually.
HillRat 11y ago
While I agree with your fundamental point, I'm pretty sure that Everett Piper's Oklahoma Wesleyan is a very safe space for a particular kind of hard-shell evangelical. You don't go to that kind of school to be "confronted, challenged and threatened," but to have your worldview confirmed.
- jorgeleo 11y ago
  That will means that there is 1 single theological theory, because then everybody that goes there will have their worldview confirmed since there is only one. Unfortunately, looks like it is also what the student in the article expected. My experience shows me that there are as many theological points of view as believers. Everybody gets their own personal variety.
- maze-le 11y ago
  Yeah, its kind of sad isn't it. It takes right-wing fundamentalist christians to point that out, because the so called "liberals" have lost their ability to understand and respond to critique.
- parennoob 11y ago
  Yeah I agree. Now, in my opinion, a student who goes to a strongly evangelical school and expects to not get bombarded with sermons saying they aren't being Christian enough really has no one but themselves to blame. However, you can can bet Piper's teachers would have their worldview being very challenged if an atheist or agnostic student started long discussions about the nature of their mission (http://www.okwu.edu/about/ http://www.okwu.edu/about/).
pjc50 11y ago
The opposite of "safe" is "risky". If we're responsible, we do a risk assessment. So, if a place is not safe, what sort of risks does it contain, who is exposed to them, and what mitigation can be put in place.
- ucaetano 11y ago
  This reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite books: "Living is a dangerous business".
DanBC 11y ago
> they should be places where you feel confronted, challenged and threatened by different ideas and points of view. That's a lot easier to say when you're not much more likely to be a victim of violent crime, or of sexual violence, or of racist violence.
EthanHeilman 11y ago
>Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". I'm not directly disagreeing with you here or putting words in your mouth. I realize you are not saying safe spaces should not exist. Instead I want to make the argument that having safe spaces is reasonable. People make safe spaces _within_ universities and other institutions for the same reason some combat veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder put up signs asking neighbors not to set off fireworks[0]. It is to avoid triggering people that have have experienced serious trauma[1]. For instance using the combat veteran example, it would be unreasonable for a veteran to attend a fireworks show and then complain about the fireworks, but if this same combat veteran was attending University and it would be reasonable to ask the University to provide a safe space away from fireworks or other triggers -- sound proofed dorms if students are constantly setting off fireworks. There is a big difference in intention between 'safety from conflicting points of view' and safe spaces. Although a safe space sometimes requires limiting certain discussions (a person who was sexuality assaulted might be triggered by discussions and depictions of sexual assault). [0]: http://www.militarywithptsd.org/fireworks-triggers-ptsd-and-veterans/ http://www.militarywithptsd.org/fireworks-triggers-ptsd-and-... [1]: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd/index.shtml http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/post-traumatic-stress-...
- ucaetano 11y ago
  I agree with most of the points you made, specially that there must be safe spaces, but I don't think an university classroom should be one of them. Your home? Yes. A doctor's office? Yes. The student counsellor's office in the university? Yes. And so on. "Although a safe space sometimes requires limiting certain discussions" That makes no sense in a university IMHO. Students could be excused of classes due to previous traumatic experiences, not the other way around. No discussion should be silenced because the topic triggers or bothers someone. Sure, we can be sensitive about it, and take precautionary measures (warn the students in advance of the topic, etc.), but at absolutely no point, IMHO, should a discussion in an university be limited because it bothers, annoys, disrespects or triggers someone. Yes, that opens room for some awful, violent and disrespectful points of view, but so many pillars of modern society were once those same awful, violent and disrespectful POVs.
voyou 11y ago
Universities shouldn't be safe spaces, I quite agree. That's why I'm so glad my alma mater had packs of lions roaming the campus. Obviously there are all kinds of things we do to ensure that universities are safe in different ways, and we find ways to try and ensure this safety doesn't interfere too much with learning. Why shouldn't this concern for safety extend to the mental health of students? Chanting "universities are not safe spaces" is a way of avoiding thinking about what kinds of safety we already provide or could provide, and how we can combine these kinds of safety with the challenging education that everyone recognizes is an important part of higher education.

maze-le 11y ago

>> challenged and threatened by different ideas and points of view That is one the problems I think. Some people (seems like the majority of young students nowdays) feel "challenged and threatened" personally, and not intellectually.

HillRat 11y ago

While I agree with your fundamental point, I'm pretty sure that Everett Piper's Oklahoma Wesleyan is a very safe space for a particular kind of hard-shell evangelical. You don't go to that kind of school to be "confronted, challenged and threatened," but to have your worldview confirmed.

jorgeleo 11y ago
That will means that there is 1 single theological theory, because then everybody that goes there will have their worldview confirmed since there is only one. Unfortunately, looks like it is also what the student in the article expected. My experience shows me that there are as many theological points of view as believers. Everybody gets their own personal variety.
maze-le 11y ago
Yeah, its kind of sad isn't it. It takes right-wing fundamentalist christians to point that out, because the so called "liberals" have lost their ability to understand and respond to critique.
parennoob 11y ago
Yeah I agree. Now, in my opinion, a student who goes to a strongly evangelical school and expects to not get bombarded with sermons saying they aren't being Christian enough really has no one but themselves to blame. However, you can can bet Piper's teachers would have their worldview being very challenged if an atheist or agnostic student started long discussions about the nature of their mission (http://www.okwu.edu/about/ http://www.okwu.edu/about/).

pjc50 11y ago

The opposite of "safe" is "risky". If we're responsible, we do a risk assessment. So, if a place is not safe, what sort of risks does it contain, who is exposed to them, and what mitigation can be put in place.

ucaetano 11y ago
This reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite books: "Living is a dangerous business".

DanBC 11y ago

> they should be places where you feel confronted, challenged and threatened by different ideas and points of view. That's a lot easier to say when you're not much more likely to be a victim of violent crime, or of sexual violence, or of racist violence.

EthanHeilman 11y ago

>Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". I'm not directly disagreeing with you here or putting words in your mouth. I realize you are not saying safe spaces should not exist. Instead I want to make the argument that having safe spaces is reasonable. People make safe spaces _within_ universities and other institutions for the same reason some combat veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder put up signs asking neighbors not to set off fireworks[0]. It is to avoid triggering people that have have experienced serious trauma[1]. For instance using the combat veteran example, it would be unreasonable for a veteran to attend a fireworks show and then complain about the fireworks, but if this same combat veteran was attending University and it would be reasonable to ask the University to provide a safe space away from fireworks or other triggers -- sound proofed dorms if students are constantly setting off fireworks. There is a big difference in intention between 'safety from conflicting points of view' and safe spaces. Although a safe space sometimes requires limiting certain discussions (a person who was sexuality assaulted might be triggered by discussions and depictions of sexual assault). [0]: http://www.militarywithptsd.org/fireworks-triggers-ptsd-and-veterans/ http://www.militarywithptsd.org/fireworks-triggers-ptsd-and-... [1]: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd/index.shtml http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/post-traumatic-stress-...

ucaetano 11y ago
I agree with most of the points you made, specially that there must be safe spaces, but I don't think an university classroom should be one of them. Your home? Yes. A doctor's office? Yes. The student counsellor's office in the university? Yes. And so on. "Although a safe space sometimes requires limiting certain discussions" That makes no sense in a university IMHO. Students could be excused of classes due to previous traumatic experiences, not the other way around. No discussion should be silenced because the topic triggers or bothers someone. Sure, we can be sensitive about it, and take precautionary measures (warn the students in advance of the topic, etc.), but at absolutely no point, IMHO, should a discussion in an university be limited because it bothers, annoys, disrespects or triggers someone. Yes, that opens room for some awful, violent and disrespectful points of view, but so many pillars of modern society were once those same awful, violent and disrespectful POVs.

voyou 11y ago

Universities shouldn't be safe spaces, I quite agree. That's why I'm so glad my alma mater had packs of lions roaming the campus. Obviously there are all kinds of things we do to ensure that universities are safe in different ways, and we find ways to try and ensure this safety doesn't interfere too much with learning. Why shouldn't this concern for safety extend to the mental health of students? Chanting "universities are not safe spaces" is a way of avoiding thinking about what kinds of safety we already provide or could provide, and how we can combine these kinds of safety with the challenging education that everyone recognizes is an important part of higher education.