5 ms·

Complete IDE Disk Driver in Forth

26 points by kyleburton 17y ago

joeycfan 17y ago
Forth is awesome, I used Miller Microcomputer Forth on a TRS80 mdl 1 back in the day, but I have seen this IDE controller before and it has been described as the 'Hello World' of IDE controllers...
ajross 17y ago
This is much more a statement about how simple the ATA port interface is than it is about Forth. Writing for hardware only sounds complicated to modern folks who have never tried it. Remember that these were devices built with a few thousand transistors at most. There's only so much complexity you can pack into that structure.
- mrcharles 17y ago
  I wish there were more resources available detailing how to write drivers. I've had this dream in the back of my mind for a long time of hacking a standard USB port on the end of a Steel Battalion controller, and then writing a PC driver for it. But I wouldn't even know where to start, really.
  - joubert 17y ago
    Mac-specific, but cool. http://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/ http://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/ I've been working against IOKit lately.
  - wendroid 17y ago
    USB Universal - No Serial - No Bus - No leave the USB alone, seriously, that's my advice
    - mrcharles 17y ago
      Well, the issue is that Xbox controllers are already USB, they just have a special end.
      - blasdel 17y ago
        ...and they conveniently put those quick-disconnect dongles on the end so you can make your own normal dongles It looks like some people have already written Windows drivers, if you wanted to experiment you might look at writing a userspace driver for Linux. It's kind of strange that they built something custom instead of just implementing it as a couple standard HID devices with an internal hub.
        nitrogen 17y ago
        It's kind of strange that they built something custom instead of just implementing it as a couple standard HID devices with an internal hub. Depending on the USB chip/microcontroller used, it can be a lot easier to just toss in a bunch of vendor-specific requests instead of adhering to all the requirements of an HID-class device (though I haven't analyzed the Xbox controller itself, so I don't know if that's what was done). Also, there's no need to use an internal hub, as a single USB device ("function" in the USB spec, IIRC) can have multiple "interfaces" that implement different (or the same) classes, such as HID, CDC, mass storage, or vendor-specific.
        wendroid 17y ago
        they do work fine once you replace the ends, I did it with mine
  - nitrogen 17y ago
    You probably don't need to write a driver if the controller plugs into the Xbox's controller port. You can just download the Xbox controller drivers written by others. That said, you may find the following resources useful (I certainly have): Linux Device Drivers (a very helpful book, but the kernel API has changed a bit since its release): http://lwn.net/Kernel/LDD3/ http://lwn.net/Kernel/LDD3/ Windows Driver Development Kit (use Google to find the XP or Server 2003 versions if you need to develop for XP): http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/WDK/default.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/WDK/default.mspx libusb (write cross-platform USB drivers without touching kernel code): http://www.libusb.org/ http://www.libusb.org/ http://libusb-win32.sourceforge.net/ http://libusb-win32.sourceforge.net/ If you want to create a new device that's worth writing drivers for, start here (the USB Bit Whacker): http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=762 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_i... http://www.curdes.com/gnupic/GnuPic.html http://www.curdes.com/gnupic/GnuPic.html http://www.microchip.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=123533 http://www.microchip.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=123533
- jmah 17y ago
  > There's only so much complexity you can pack into that structure. This makes it sound complicated to us modern folk because that complexity hasn't gone away; it's just been moved into the software layer.
__david__ 17y ago
I would not call it "complete". Maybe "complete" in the sense that it works under perfect conditions, but not "complete" in any real sense. I don't see any error handling or power-up initialization, I don't see any DMA, I don't see any timeouts, I don't see any interrupts. I could write the same code in C and it would be just about as long.
mrcharles 17y ago
Seeing things like this make me glad I started programming with a (then) higher level language like C.
tghw 17y ago
Forth has made it to 1986!

26 points by kyleburton 17y ago

Forth is awesome, I used Miller Microcomputer Forth on a TRS80 mdl 1 back in the day, but I have seen this IDE controller before and it has been described as the 'Hello World' of IDE controllers...

ajross 17y ago

This is much more a statement about how simple the ATA port interface is than it is about Forth. Writing for hardware only sounds complicated to modern folks who have never tried it. Remember that these were devices built with a few thousand transistors at most. There's only so much complexity you can pack into that structure.

mrcharles 17y ago
I wish there were more resources available detailing how to write drivers. I've had this dream in the back of my mind for a long time of hacking a standard USB port on the end of a Steel Battalion controller, and then writing a PC driver for it. But I wouldn't even know where to start, really.
- joubert 17y ago
  Mac-specific, but cool. http://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/ http://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/ I've been working against IOKit lately.
- wendroid 17y ago
  USB Universal - No Serial - No Bus - No leave the USB alone, seriously, that's my advice
  - mrcharles 17y ago
    Well, the issue is that Xbox controllers are already USB, they just have a special end.
    - blasdel 17y ago
      ...and they conveniently put those quick-disconnect dongles on the end so you can make your own normal dongles It looks like some people have already written Windows drivers, if you wanted to experiment you might look at writing a userspace driver for Linux. It's kind of strange that they built something custom instead of just implementing it as a couple standard HID devices with an internal hub.
      - nitrogen 17y ago
        It's kind of strange that they built something custom instead of just implementing it as a couple standard HID devices with an internal hub. Depending on the USB chip/microcontroller used, it can be a lot easier to just toss in a bunch of vendor-specific requests instead of adhering to all the requirements of an HID-class device (though I haven't analyzed the Xbox controller itself, so I don't know if that's what was done). Also, there's no need to use an internal hub, as a single USB device ("function" in the USB spec, IIRC) can have multiple "interfaces" that implement different (or the same) classes, such as HID, CDC, mass storage, or vendor-specific.
      - wendroid 17y ago
        they do work fine once you replace the ends, I did it with mine
- nitrogen 17y ago
  You probably don't need to write a driver if the controller plugs into the Xbox's controller port. You can just download the Xbox controller drivers written by others. That said, you may find the following resources useful (I certainly have): Linux Device Drivers (a very helpful book, but the kernel API has changed a bit since its release): http://lwn.net/Kernel/LDD3/ http://lwn.net/Kernel/LDD3/ Windows Driver Development Kit (use Google to find the XP or Server 2003 versions if you need to develop for XP): http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/WDK/default.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/WDK/default.mspx libusb (write cross-platform USB drivers without touching kernel code): http://www.libusb.org/ http://www.libusb.org/ http://libusb-win32.sourceforge.net/ http://libusb-win32.sourceforge.net/ If you want to create a new device that's worth writing drivers for, start here (the USB Bit Whacker): http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=762 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_i... http://www.curdes.com/gnupic/GnuPic.html http://www.curdes.com/gnupic/GnuPic.html http://www.microchip.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=123533 http://www.microchip.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=123533
jmah 17y ago
> There's only so much complexity you can pack into that structure. This makes it sound complicated to us modern folk because that complexity hasn't gone away; it's just been moved into the software layer.

__david__ 17y ago

I would not call it "complete". Maybe "complete" in the sense that it works under perfect conditions, but not "complete" in any real sense. I don't see any error handling or power-up initialization, I don't see any DMA, I don't see any timeouts, I don't see any interrupts. I could write the same code in C and it would be just about as long.

mrcharles 17y ago

Seeing things like this make me glad I started programming with a (then) higher level language like C.

tghw 17y ago

Forth has made it to 1986!