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It's not really the spying that bothers people. Nearly every country is constantly spying on every other country. What is different is that Chinese hacking goes

by learc83 11y ago

It's not really the spying that bothers people. Nearly every country is constantly spying on every other country. What is different is that Chinese hacking goes beyond snooping for national security reasons in a few ways. They actively engage in corporate espionage (in a massive way) to aid their homegrown companies and directly harm US companies. As far as we know, the NSA isn't stealing trade secrets from BMW and giving them to GM. They directly attack civilians for hosting content they don't like, e.g., the recent DDoS attack on github.

paganel 11y ago
> As far as we know, the NSA isn't stealing trade secrets from BMW and giving them to GM. After a 2-second Google search: "Snowden says NSA engages in industrial espionage" (from here http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/26/us-security-snowden-germany-idUSBREA0P0DE20140126#3b7sfkh2fpd258fO.97 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/26/us-security-snowde...)
- learc83 11y ago
  Notice he said nothing about giving trade secrets to US companies. Of course spy agencies are spying on companies from other countries, but there is a big difference between spying and stealing trade secrets to give local companies a competitive advantage.
kyrre 11y ago
that is exactly what they are and should be doing, e.g., google NSA & Petrobras
- learc83 11y ago
  There is no evidence that the NSA is giving information from Petrobas to US oil companies to give them a competitive advantage.
  - kyrre 11y ago
    NSA gives info to the advocacy center where _US_ companies (think Lockheed Martin) can ask for assistance, e.g., get access to competitors bids for international contracts etc. http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/7/7743/1.html http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/7/7743/1.html
    - learc83 11y ago
      Nothing you posted contains any evidence that the NSA gives trade secrets to US companies (directly or indirectly) to increase their competitiveness. What you posted is just the advocacy center's stated purpose--to help facilitate bids by US companies for foreign contracts. I know the US government gets directly involved when dealing with companies like Lockheed Martin exporting military equipment. And I'm sure the NSA would share military secrets with defense contractors, but that is directly in their scope of mission to protect national security. Stealing trade secrets to pad the bottom line of US companies is not part of their mission, and so far you've posted nothing to prove they are violating their mission in this way.

by learc83 11y ago

paganel 11y ago

> As far as we know, the NSA isn't stealing trade secrets from BMW and giving them to GM. After a 2-second Google search: "Snowden says NSA engages in industrial espionage" (from here http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/26/us-security-snowden-germany-idUSBREA0P0DE20140126#3b7sfkh2fpd258fO.97 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/26/us-security-snowde...)

learc83 11y ago
Notice he said nothing about giving trade secrets to US companies. Of course spy agencies are spying on companies from other countries, but there is a big difference between spying and stealing trade secrets to give local companies a competitive advantage.

kyrre 11y ago

that is exactly what they are and should be doing, e.g., google NSA & Petrobras

learc83 11y ago
There is no evidence that the NSA is giving information from Petrobas to US oil companies to give them a competitive advantage.
- kyrre 11y ago
  NSA gives info to the advocacy center where _US_ companies (think Lockheed Martin) can ask for assistance, e.g., get access to competitors bids for international contracts etc. http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/7/7743/1.html http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/7/7743/1.html
  - learc83 11y ago
    Nothing you posted contains any evidence that the NSA gives trade secrets to US companies (directly or indirectly) to increase their competitiveness. What you posted is just the advocacy center's stated purpose--to help facilitate bids by US companies for foreign contracts. I know the US government gets directly involved when dealing with companies like Lockheed Martin exporting military equipment. And I'm sure the NSA would share military secrets with defense contractors, but that is directly in their scope of mission to protect national security. Stealing trade secrets to pad the bottom line of US companies is not part of their mission, and so far you've posted nothing to prove they are violating their mission in this way.