6 ms·

> Well, you know, just as long as she doesn't have a mind of her own. You read into it too much mate - girlfriends have dressed me to their taste too, encourag

> Well, you know, just as long as she doesn't have a mind of her own. You read into it too much mate - girlfriends have dressed me to their taste too, encouraging more casual, or more formal, or more scarves, or whatever. It's normal for a romantic partner to encourage and refine their partner's style of dress and aesthetics, and it's usually done willingly by flexible people. Now, if a girl wrote, "I prefer to find a guy who is quality that other women might overlook, I reckon you can always teach a man how to dress better" would you have batted an eyelid? I doubt it. > I mean, would you be comfortable with a girl that you wanted to date reading this post? Yes. > Speculating on her "quality" as if she was a horse. No. It's okay to have standards. This isn't kindergarten where everyone is special.

foldr 17y ago
Look, I'm not some lunatic who's saying that all women are equally attractive, or that partners never influence each other's dress. It's the tone of your post that I object to, but I can see this is lost on you. I doubt it will be lost on women that you date, though. > No. It's ok to have standards. Some standards are ok, some aren't. I'm not objecting to your having standards, just the particular standards that you appear to have.
- lionhearted 17y ago
  Usually if someone slings mud, I'll just hang it up and call it the end of a discussion. But I think you're probably well-intentioned and a good person so I'll respond. Let's look at two statements here: > It's the tone of your post that I object to, but I can see this is lost on you. Your meaning wasn't lost on me. Earlier, you asked me, "Would you be okay with a girl you liked reading that?" And my answer is yes. Yes, I am not afraid to speak candidly to people in my life, women included. I usually have this exact same conversation with girls in my life - last night I was at Shilin Night Market with my new girlfriend here in Taipei, who is an athlete, and I told her that I think the Taiwanese men who want small, hyper-skinny, unathletic girls are crazy, and that I think those girls look very elegant, but are worse lovers and are less likely to give you strong children. This is completely not politically correct, but it's also honestly how I feel. And so if I speak on the topic, I wind up speaking candidly. I understand occasionally someone will get upset, though it's clearly not the intention to upset people. Dating and sex and love is a very personal topic and can quite upset people by getting at them on an identity level. So what's the answer? To speak in platitudes and generalities? There's no way to speak up candidly about dating, sex, love, men, and women without upsetting someone. You can't do it. So your choices are never speak up, or always say fuzzy things with many caveats in the most polite way - and never get your point across. I speak honestly. Hopefully my anecdote that started this thread will be of some value to people here, which is why I comment. > I doubt it will be lost on women that you date, though. Actually, you're right, but not in the way you mean. I've had some wonderful relationships in my life. I've probably been far more blessed than I deserve to be - but if you want to talk about relative social lives, sex lives, and dating lives, I'm happy to go there as you brought it up. We could compare and contrast, if you like, how your politically correct pseudo-chivalry is working vs. my slightly more gritty candidness. I would never have thought to bring such a thing up, it seems rather impolite, but I'll go there if you'd like to. > I'm not objecting to your having standards, just the particular standards that you appear to have. Snark aside, the great thing about being human is that you get to set your own standards. Mine work for me. Maybe you don't care so much about the things I care about? Totally okay! If you're happy with where you're at, and I'm happy where I'm at, life goes on. If, however, you want to imply that political correctness and not being candid and having some sort of "acceptable standards" or some such will make you more effective at life or happier - well, this is where I must speak up and disagree. No, I think you're probably a good person, and a thoughtful person, so I don't take any offense here. But I would encourage you to think - really think - about whether it's okay and acceptable for people to speak about what they truly want and go for out of life, even if it's not normally the most polite, even if it risks offending someone sensitive. Your answers might be different than mine - but mine came from a lot of life lessons, and my way generally serves me pretty well. Loosening off political correctness and sensitivity might do the same for you or others.
  - plinkplonk 17y ago
    Don't feed the troll. (Who is voting this guy's blatherings about his sex life up? On HN!! Looks like some kind of voting ring)
    - ardit33 17y ago
      lionhearted is not a troll. What he is saying it is actually resonated with what I think/do also. BTW. My friends and I use the same term too. "Quality Woman": Is a girl/woman that is well educated, cute, nice, not with a huge self sense of entitlement, and a good personality. Basically a woman that has her shit together, not bitchy, and is cute at the same time. So instead of having a whole paragraph to describe her, just saying 'quality', and my friend will understand it immediately. They are actually pretty rare in the US, especially single. I don't know why, but European girls seem to be a lot balanced in general. Maybe saying she is a great girl will be less offensive to few people? But whatever, life is short, so I am not going to live myself to appease everybody.
      - deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
      - plinkplonk 17y ago
        "lionhearted is not a troll. What he is saying it is actually resonated with what I think/do also." A troll is as troll does. And this isn't about whether the two of you share some weird notion of "quality" in women. If you do, take it off line. This sexist claptrap doesn't belong on HN. "I prefer taller women, and I prefer women who are built strong with good musculature, athletes, and girls with wider hips and shoulders." Does anybody care a damn what someone's sexual preferences are like? This is borderline locker room conversation - discussion of "long thin athletic" women, sexual history paraded as "education" for other readers, challenges to other people to compare their sexual lives with his (e.g:- "if you want to talk about relative social lives, sex lives, and dating lives, I'm happy to go there . We could compare and contrast, if you like, how your politically correct pseudo-chivalry is working vs. my slightly more gritty candidness") Gritty candidness my foot! This sounds like juvenile frat boy crap to me. It doesn't matter whether you have the same tastes. I just happen to think such crudity should be kept off HN. If I am in the minority, so be it. Nothing prevents the lot of you from forming a private mailing list and exchanging vapid theories of "quality women". Or are you saying your sexual fantasies and theories are of "intellectual interest to hackers"?
saikat 17y ago
> It's normal for a romantic partner to encourage and refine their partner's style of dress and aesthetics, and it's usually done willingly by flexible people. Yes, that's why you stated it as basically "you can always change the girl to fit your tastes." Nothing about your statement implied (or stated, for that matter) any kind of mutual understanding or flexibility - just your ability to change a girl to your liking. > Now, if a girl wrote, "I prefer to find a guy who is quality that other women might overlook, I reckon you can always teach a man how to dress better" would you have batted an eyelid? I doubt it. Yes, and I bet most here would. Most independent people (which I believe many entrepreneurs are) dislike being told what to do. Even the tone of your statement shows a bit of bitterness at your belief that it's ok for a woman to "change" her man and not the other way around.
- awa 17y ago
  > Now, if a girl wrote, "I prefer to find a guy who is quality that other women might overlook, I reckon you can always teach a man how to dress better" would you have batted an eyelid? I doubt it. I dunno whether my girl friend thought that before/after meeting me but she has definitely influenced my dressing habits over time and plays a big role when I am buying new clothes or deciding what to wear to a party/occasion. And I don't really mind that and the same is true for her, I do get a say on what she wears.

foldr 17y ago

Look, I'm not some lunatic who's saying that all women are equally attractive, or that partners never influence each other's dress. It's the tone of your post that I object to, but I can see this is lost on you. I doubt it will be lost on women that you date, though. > No. It's ok to have standards. Some standards are ok, some aren't. I'm not objecting to your having standards, just the particular standards that you appear to have.

lionhearted 17y ago
Usually if someone slings mud, I'll just hang it up and call it the end of a discussion. But I think you're probably well-intentioned and a good person so I'll respond. Let's look at two statements here: > It's the tone of your post that I object to, but I can see this is lost on you. Your meaning wasn't lost on me. Earlier, you asked me, "Would you be okay with a girl you liked reading that?" And my answer is yes. Yes, I am not afraid to speak candidly to people in my life, women included. I usually have this exact same conversation with girls in my life - last night I was at Shilin Night Market with my new girlfriend here in Taipei, who is an athlete, and I told her that I think the Taiwanese men who want small, hyper-skinny, unathletic girls are crazy, and that I think those girls look very elegant, but are worse lovers and are less likely to give you strong children. This is completely not politically correct, but it's also honestly how I feel. And so if I speak on the topic, I wind up speaking candidly. I understand occasionally someone will get upset, though it's clearly not the intention to upset people. Dating and sex and love is a very personal topic and can quite upset people by getting at them on an identity level. So what's the answer? To speak in platitudes and generalities? There's no way to speak up candidly about dating, sex, love, men, and women without upsetting someone. You can't do it. So your choices are never speak up, or always say fuzzy things with many caveats in the most polite way - and never get your point across. I speak honestly. Hopefully my anecdote that started this thread will be of some value to people here, which is why I comment. > I doubt it will be lost on women that you date, though. Actually, you're right, but not in the way you mean. I've had some wonderful relationships in my life. I've probably been far more blessed than I deserve to be - but if you want to talk about relative social lives, sex lives, and dating lives, I'm happy to go there as you brought it up. We could compare and contrast, if you like, how your politically correct pseudo-chivalry is working vs. my slightly more gritty candidness. I would never have thought to bring such a thing up, it seems rather impolite, but I'll go there if you'd like to. > I'm not objecting to your having standards, just the particular standards that you appear to have. Snark aside, the great thing about being human is that you get to set your own standards. Mine work for me. Maybe you don't care so much about the things I care about? Totally okay! If you're happy with where you're at, and I'm happy where I'm at, life goes on. If, however, you want to imply that political correctness and not being candid and having some sort of "acceptable standards" or some such will make you more effective at life or happier - well, this is where I must speak up and disagree. No, I think you're probably a good person, and a thoughtful person, so I don't take any offense here. But I would encourage you to think - really think - about whether it's okay and acceptable for people to speak about what they truly want and go for out of life, even if it's not normally the most polite, even if it risks offending someone sensitive. Your answers might be different than mine - but mine came from a lot of life lessons, and my way generally serves me pretty well. Loosening off political correctness and sensitivity might do the same for you or others.
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  Don't feed the troll. (Who is voting this guy's blatherings about his sex life up? On HN!! Looks like some kind of voting ring)
  - ardit33 17y ago
    lionhearted is not a troll. What he is saying it is actually resonated with what I think/do also. BTW. My friends and I use the same term too. "Quality Woman": Is a girl/woman that is well educated, cute, nice, not with a huge self sense of entitlement, and a good personality. Basically a woman that has her shit together, not bitchy, and is cute at the same time. So instead of having a whole paragraph to describe her, just saying 'quality', and my friend will understand it immediately. They are actually pretty rare in the US, especially single. I don't know why, but European girls seem to be a lot balanced in general. Maybe saying she is a great girl will be less offensive to few people? But whatever, life is short, so I am not going to live myself to appease everybody.
    - deleted 17y ago
      [deleted]
    - plinkplonk 17y ago
      "lionhearted is not a troll. What he is saying it is actually resonated with what I think/do also." A troll is as troll does. And this isn't about whether the two of you share some weird notion of "quality" in women. If you do, take it off line. This sexist claptrap doesn't belong on HN. "I prefer taller women, and I prefer women who are built strong with good musculature, athletes, and girls with wider hips and shoulders." Does anybody care a damn what someone's sexual preferences are like? This is borderline locker room conversation - discussion of "long thin athletic" women, sexual history paraded as "education" for other readers, challenges to other people to compare their sexual lives with his (e.g:- "if you want to talk about relative social lives, sex lives, and dating lives, I'm happy to go there . We could compare and contrast, if you like, how your politically correct pseudo-chivalry is working vs. my slightly more gritty candidness") Gritty candidness my foot! This sounds like juvenile frat boy crap to me. It doesn't matter whether you have the same tastes. I just happen to think such crudity should be kept off HN. If I am in the minority, so be it. Nothing prevents the lot of you from forming a private mailing list and exchanging vapid theories of "quality women". Or are you saying your sexual fantasies and theories are of "intellectual interest to hackers"?

saikat 17y ago

> It's normal for a romantic partner to encourage and refine their partner's style of dress and aesthetics, and it's usually done willingly by flexible people. Yes, that's why you stated it as basically "you can always change the girl to fit your tastes." Nothing about your statement implied (or stated, for that matter) any kind of mutual understanding or flexibility - just your ability to change a girl to your liking. > Now, if a girl wrote, "I prefer to find a guy who is quality that other women might overlook, I reckon you can always teach a man how to dress better" would you have batted an eyelid? I doubt it. Yes, and I bet most here would. Most independent people (which I believe many entrepreneurs are) dislike being told what to do. Even the tone of your statement shows a bit of bitterness at your belief that it's ok for a woman to "change" her man and not the other way around.

awa 17y ago
> Now, if a girl wrote, "I prefer to find a guy who is quality that other women might overlook, I reckon you can always teach a man how to dress better" would you have batted an eyelid? I doubt it. I dunno whether my girl friend thought that before/after meeting me but she has definitely influenced my dressing habits over time and plays a big role when I am buying new clothes or deciding what to wear to a party/occasion. And I don't really mind that and the same is true for her, I do get a say on what she wears.