4 ms·

Somewhat hypocritical for the USA to complain about hacking. We know the resources/extent of NSA capabilities and so it is pretty certain their spying efforts

Somewhat hypocritical for the USA to complain about hacking. We know the resources/extent of NSA capabilities and so it is pretty certain their spying efforts dwarf anything China does. I mean we know they spied on the German chancellor and she is on our side!

krapp 11y ago
>so it is pretty certain their spying efforts dwarf anything China does How is that certain? Where is the Chinese Edward Snowden dumping the docs about their capabilities? >I mean we know they spied on the German chancellor and she is on our side! Are you implying China couldn't spy on Angela Merkel if they wanted to? Or that they haven't?
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Personally I think that if they wanted to, they could. The physical world around us is mostly theirs. They manufacture everything. Even "made in US" stickers on products actually made in China are also made in China. They could sneak in spy stuff pretty much wherever they want - especially if it has something to do with electronics.
  - justsayinstuff 11y ago
    Sure it would be easy for them to sneak it in there, but is the US so incompetent that it can not detect it? Otherwise where is the proof of this statistically significant physical spyware?
    - dragontamer 11y ago
      Has Superfish / Lenovo already been forgotten?
    - TeMPOraL 11y ago
      Modern electronics are incredibly complex. For instance, did you know that your CPU most likely has its own web server on board? It would be easy for a dedicated party - one that also controls manufacturing - to introduce changes on PCB or even component level. Changes that you'd have no way of figuring out they're there.
      - threatofrain 11y ago
        I'm quite ignorant on this subject and find your statement surprising. Are you talking about modern intel cpu's?
        TeMPOraL 11y ago
        Correction: it's on the chipset, not CPU itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Techno... Still, it runs out-of-band, it can be accessed even if your computer is turned off, as long as it's plugged in to a power source.
        ionised 11y ago
        I'm guessing this is something that cannot be disabled in the BIOS/UEFI? * EDIT * Actually, it looks like you can.
learc83 11y ago
It's not really the spying that bothers people. Nearly every country is constantly spying on every other country. What is different is that Chinese hacking goes beyond snooping for national security reasons in a few ways. They actively engage in corporate espionage (in a massive way) to aid their homegrown companies and directly harm US companies. As far as we know, the NSA isn't stealing trade secrets from BMW and giving them to GM. They directly attack civilians for hosting content they don't like, e.g., the recent DDoS attack on github.
- paganel 11y ago
  > As far as we know, the NSA isn't stealing trade secrets from BMW and giving them to GM. After a 2-second Google search: "Snowden says NSA engages in industrial espionage" (from here http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/26/us-security-snowden-germany-idUSBREA0P0DE20140126#3b7sfkh2fpd258fO.97 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/26/us-security-snowde...)
  - learc83 11y ago
    Notice he said nothing about giving trade secrets to US companies. Of course spy agencies are spying on companies from other countries, but there is a big difference between spying and stealing trade secrets to give local companies a competitive advantage.
- kyrre 11y ago
  that is exactly what they are and should be doing, e.g., google NSA & Petrobras
  - learc83 11y ago
    There is no evidence that the NSA is giving information from Petrobas to US oil companies to give them a competitive advantage.
    - kyrre 11y ago
      NSA gives info to the advocacy center where _US_ companies (think Lockheed Martin) can ask for assistance, e.g., get access to competitors bids for international contracts etc. http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/7/7743/1.html http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/7/7743/1.html

krapp 11y ago

>so it is pretty certain their spying efforts dwarf anything China does How is that certain? Where is the Chinese Edward Snowden dumping the docs about their capabilities? >I mean we know they spied on the German chancellor and she is on our side! Are you implying China couldn't spy on Angela Merkel if they wanted to? Or that they haven't?

TeMPOraL 11y ago
Personally I think that if they wanted to, they could. The physical world around us is mostly theirs. They manufacture everything. Even "made in US" stickers on products actually made in China are also made in China. They could sneak in spy stuff pretty much wherever they want - especially if it has something to do with electronics.
- justsayinstuff 11y ago
  Sure it would be easy for them to sneak it in there, but is the US so incompetent that it can not detect it? Otherwise where is the proof of this statistically significant physical spyware?
  - dragontamer 11y ago
    Has Superfish / Lenovo already been forgotten?
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    Modern electronics are incredibly complex. For instance, did you know that your CPU most likely has its own web server on board? It would be easy for a dedicated party - one that also controls manufacturing - to introduce changes on PCB or even component level. Changes that you'd have no way of figuring out they're there.
    - threatofrain 11y ago
      I'm quite ignorant on this subject and find your statement surprising. Are you talking about modern intel cpu's?
      - TeMPOraL 11y ago
        Correction: it's on the chipset, not CPU itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Techno... Still, it runs out-of-band, it can be accessed even if your computer is turned off, as long as it's plugged in to a power source.
        ionised 11y ago
        I'm guessing this is something that cannot be disabled in the BIOS/UEFI? * EDIT * Actually, it looks like you can.

learc83 11y ago

It's not really the spying that bothers people. Nearly every country is constantly spying on every other country. What is different is that Chinese hacking goes beyond snooping for national security reasons in a few ways. They actively engage in corporate espionage (in a massive way) to aid their homegrown companies and directly harm US companies. As far as we know, the NSA isn't stealing trade secrets from BMW and giving them to GM. They directly attack civilians for hosting content they don't like, e.g., the recent DDoS attack on github.

paganel 11y ago
> As far as we know, the NSA isn't stealing trade secrets from BMW and giving them to GM. After a 2-second Google search: "Snowden says NSA engages in industrial espionage" (from here http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/26/us-security-snowden-germany-idUSBREA0P0DE20140126#3b7sfkh2fpd258fO.97 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/26/us-security-snowde...)
- learc83 11y ago
  Notice he said nothing about giving trade secrets to US companies. Of course spy agencies are spying on companies from other countries, but there is a big difference between spying and stealing trade secrets to give local companies a competitive advantage.
kyrre 11y ago
that is exactly what they are and should be doing, e.g., google NSA & Petrobras
- learc83 11y ago
  There is no evidence that the NSA is giving information from Petrobas to US oil companies to give them a competitive advantage.
  - kyrre 11y ago
    NSA gives info to the advocacy center where _US_ companies (think Lockheed Martin) can ask for assistance, e.g., get access to competitors bids for international contracts etc. http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/7/7743/1.html http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/7/7743/1.html