5 ms·

Chinese military scaled back cyberthefts after indictments, U.S. officials say

40 points by molecule 11y ago

steve19 11y ago
Or did they? From the article ... “For a period of time following the indictments, there was a very significant decrease” by the PLA, said a second U.S. official. “And today we are definitely not at the level that we were before the indictments.” ... The Unit 61398 hackers stopped their activity for a while, but other parts of the military continued their operations, and the Shanghai group eventually resumed using other tools, said an intelligence analyst at FireEye, which now owns Mandiant." Sounds like they are just covering their tracks better. The most likely consequence, at best, would have been a Chinese Colonel was fired/reassigned and replaced with a newly promoted technocrat who has been told not to be caught. Business as usual ...
- jevinskie 11y ago
  Precisely. I can easily imagine the same story with the countries' roles flipped.
laen 11y ago
Supposedly the PLA started scaling back cyber ops after the indictments of May 2014. >“From what we see, the majority of the intrusions today are coming from sets that we believe are MSS or MSS contractors versus the PLA,"...“That’s a shift that’s been happening roughly in the last year and a half.” Last year and a half eh, so the shift was coincidental with the indictments. I hope these U.S. officials aren't enamored with the potency of the indictments. It appears the PLA's scaling back is a political play to get more at the bargaining table. Let's not start patting ourselves on the back too quickly.
tn13 11y ago
Honestly I don't trust the government on national security anymore. They waged a war wasting $1.7T of our wealth, they lied and continue to lie about snooping. I am not sure if US government is not helpless before Chinese aggression. When the source of information is only government and no third party to verify all the claims we better assume the government is simply lying.
- vox_mollis 11y ago
  [meta] This is truly getting absurd. The recent, but incessant downvoting of anyone who is skeptical of authority or the mouthpieces of the status quo. What is happening to HN? For the purposes of this article in particular, attribution ranges from extremely hard to impossible, but the downvoters are expecting the parent to swallow the government's statements at face value, without question? As if the USG possesses some sort of magical crystal ball for incident attribution?
  - derefr 11y ago
    I have no problem with an argument about why you shouldn't believe something. I do have a problem with "vacuous skepticism"—a comment saying purely "this is doubtful and I remain skeptical" is the photonegative of a "this" or "me too" comment: a way to say "I [upvoted/downvoted] but I also want to say words to the same effect to call attention to myself, without adding anything to the discussion." It's an applause light; a magnet for upvotes from the same people who voted in a given direction on the story itself.
- peteretep 11y ago
  > anymore It's you, not them, that's changed in this situation
PhilWright 11y ago
Somewhat hypocritical for the USA to complain about hacking. We know the resources/extent of NSA capabilities and so it is pretty certain their spying efforts dwarf anything China does. I mean we know they spied on the German chancellor and she is on our side!
- krapp 11y ago
  >so it is pretty certain their spying efforts dwarf anything China does How is that certain? Where is the Chinese Edward Snowden dumping the docs about their capabilities? >I mean we know they spied on the German chancellor and she is on our side! Are you implying China couldn't spy on Angela Merkel if they wanted to? Or that they haven't?
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    Personally I think that if they wanted to, they could. The physical world around us is mostly theirs. They manufacture everything. Even "made in US" stickers on products actually made in China are also made in China. They could sneak in spy stuff pretty much wherever they want - especially if it has something to do with electronics.
    - justsayinstuff 11y ago
      Sure it would be easy for them to sneak it in there, but is the US so incompetent that it can not detect it? Otherwise where is the proof of this statistically significant physical spyware?
      - dragontamer 11y ago
        Has Superfish / Lenovo already been forgotten?
      - TeMPOraL 11y ago
        Modern electronics are incredibly complex. For instance, did you know that your CPU most likely has its own web server on board? It would be easy for a dedicated party - one that also controls manufacturing - to introduce changes on PCB or even component level. Changes that you'd have no way of figuring out they're there.

40 points by molecule 11y ago

Or did they? From the article ... “For a period of time following the indictments, there was a very significant decrease” by the PLA, said a second U.S. official. “And today we are definitely not at the level that we were before the indictments.” ... The Unit 61398 hackers stopped their activity for a while, but other parts of the military continued their operations, and the Shanghai group eventually resumed using other tools, said an intelligence analyst at FireEye, which now owns Mandiant." Sounds like they are just covering their tracks better. The most likely consequence, at best, would have been a Chinese Colonel was fired/reassigned and replaced with a newly promoted technocrat who has been told not to be caught. Business as usual ...

jevinskie 11y ago
Precisely. I can easily imagine the same story with the countries' roles flipped.

laen 11y ago

Supposedly the PLA started scaling back cyber ops after the indictments of May 2014. >“From what we see, the majority of the intrusions today are coming from sets that we believe are MSS or MSS contractors versus the PLA,"...“That’s a shift that’s been happening roughly in the last year and a half.” Last year and a half eh, so the shift was coincidental with the indictments. I hope these U.S. officials aren't enamored with the potency of the indictments. It appears the PLA's scaling back is a political play to get more at the bargaining table. Let's not start patting ourselves on the back too quickly.

tn13 11y ago

Honestly I don't trust the government on national security anymore. They waged a war wasting $1.7T of our wealth, they lied and continue to lie about snooping. I am not sure if US government is not helpless before Chinese aggression. When the source of information is only government and no third party to verify all the claims we better assume the government is simply lying.

vox_mollis 11y ago
[meta] This is truly getting absurd. The recent, but incessant downvoting of anyone who is skeptical of authority or the mouthpieces of the status quo. What is happening to HN? For the purposes of this article in particular, attribution ranges from extremely hard to impossible, but the downvoters are expecting the parent to swallow the government's statements at face value, without question? As if the USG possesses some sort of magical crystal ball for incident attribution?
- derefr 11y ago
  I have no problem with an argument about why you shouldn't believe something. I do have a problem with "vacuous skepticism"—a comment saying purely "this is doubtful and I remain skeptical" is the photonegative of a "this" or "me too" comment: a way to say "I [upvoted/downvoted] but I also want to say words to the same effect to call attention to myself, without adding anything to the discussion." It's an applause light; a magnet for upvotes from the same people who voted in a given direction on the story itself.
peteretep 11y ago
> anymore It's you, not them, that's changed in this situation

PhilWright 11y ago

Somewhat hypocritical for the USA to complain about hacking. We know the resources/extent of NSA capabilities and so it is pretty certain their spying efforts dwarf anything China does. I mean we know they spied on the German chancellor and she is on our side!

krapp 11y ago
>so it is pretty certain their spying efforts dwarf anything China does How is that certain? Where is the Chinese Edward Snowden dumping the docs about their capabilities? >I mean we know they spied on the German chancellor and she is on our side! Are you implying China couldn't spy on Angela Merkel if they wanted to? Or that they haven't?
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Personally I think that if they wanted to, they could. The physical world around us is mostly theirs. They manufacture everything. Even "made in US" stickers on products actually made in China are also made in China. They could sneak in spy stuff pretty much wherever they want - especially if it has something to do with electronics.
  - justsayinstuff 11y ago
    Sure it would be easy for them to sneak it in there, but is the US so incompetent that it can not detect it? Otherwise where is the proof of this statistically significant physical spyware?
    - dragontamer 11y ago
      Has Superfish / Lenovo already been forgotten?
    - TeMPOraL 11y ago
      Modern electronics are incredibly complex. For instance, did you know that your CPU most likely has its own web server on board? It would be easy for a dedicated party - one that also controls manufacturing - to introduce changes on PCB or even component level. Changes that you'd have no way of figuring out they're there.