4 ms·

Considering the massive environmental cost of making these electronic devices I think it is absolutely in the consumer, the manufacturer and society's interests

by leonroy 11y ago

Considering the massive environmental cost of making these electronic devices I think it is absolutely in the consumer, the manufacturer and society's interests to ensure the products are not made more difficult to repair than they need to be. There are significant externalities behind every iPhone most of which are borne by manufacturing and recycling plants in India and China. The more a manufacturer can do to ensure their product stays out of landfill and in use the better off we all will be.

chadgeidel 11y ago
But what if Apple's method of "ensuring the product stays out of the landfill" is build quality? What if that build quality is inversely proportional to repairability? I've had both iDevices and Android based devices and in my experience the iDevices last much longer. Anecdote, YMMV, etc.
spdionis 11y ago
We are still required to give Apple the benefit of the doubt in case they made a trade-off between repairability and quality and not attack without proof. Furthermore if we leave the realm of "moral" and "not moral" Apple is not required to keep in mind society's interests in mind by anything except law and any discussion in that direction should not refer to companies but to government (which, ok, may not be that effective). Even then, most complaints don't give much consideration to the environmental impact as a first-order issue and leave it as a two-liner before the conclusion.
- jkoebler 11y ago
  Apple is not required to keep society's interests in mind, that is true. But we are allowed to alert our fellow citizens about the fact that the company at best doesn't care and at worst is obstructing what may be in our best interests. I'm not suggesting in the piece that Apple is evil—I'm suggesting that the company is worth questioning on these arguably important issues it has either ignored or purposefully made worse.
  - jqm 11y ago
    "Apple is not required to keep society's interests in mind, that is true" Maybe they should be?
    - rarepostinlurkr 11y ago
      Make sure you let the rest of the Global 500 and their shareholders know.
      - jqm 11y ago
        Apple certainly isn't alone in this. If we back up for a bit and think why corporations exist in the first place, why society allows and facilitates rather than criminalizes corporate endeavors, it becomes clear the idea is that they fulfill a useful social function. And that function is the development, production and distribution of goods and services. But they have to operate within a framework of rules which ensure (to some extent) they fulfill these functions without impacting society negatively (excessively so at least) and that their net benefit to society is a plus. These rules change from time to time. There isn't a reason that long term externalized costs should be allowed to be pushed onto society as a whole in the interests of these entities realizing short term profits. That happens far too often and will be the death of capitalism as we know it if left unchecked. We as a society should demand better. Unfortunately, government all too often isn't the solution to the problem and the cures it provides are sometimes worse than what was attempting to be cured. But we need to keep the proper role of corporations in mind and demand a level of accountability. Not doing so leads to a very bad place.

by leonroy 11y ago

chadgeidel 11y ago

But what if Apple's method of "ensuring the product stays out of the landfill" is build quality? What if that build quality is inversely proportional to repairability? I've had both iDevices and Android based devices and in my experience the iDevices last much longer. Anecdote, YMMV, etc.

spdionis 11y ago

We are still required to give Apple the benefit of the doubt in case they made a trade-off between repairability and quality and not attack without proof. Furthermore if we leave the realm of "moral" and "not moral" Apple is not required to keep in mind society's interests in mind by anything except law and any discussion in that direction should not refer to companies but to government (which, ok, may not be that effective). Even then, most complaints don't give much consideration to the environmental impact as a first-order issue and leave it as a two-liner before the conclusion.

jkoebler 11y ago
Apple is not required to keep society's interests in mind, that is true. But we are allowed to alert our fellow citizens about the fact that the company at best doesn't care and at worst is obstructing what may be in our best interests. I'm not suggesting in the piece that Apple is evil—I'm suggesting that the company is worth questioning on these arguably important issues it has either ignored or purposefully made worse.
- jqm 11y ago
  "Apple is not required to keep society's interests in mind, that is true" Maybe they should be?
  - rarepostinlurkr 11y ago
    Make sure you let the rest of the Global 500 and their shareholders know.
    - jqm 11y ago
      Apple certainly isn't alone in this. If we back up for a bit and think why corporations exist in the first place, why society allows and facilitates rather than criminalizes corporate endeavors, it becomes clear the idea is that they fulfill a useful social function. And that function is the development, production and distribution of goods and services. But they have to operate within a framework of rules which ensure (to some extent) they fulfill these functions without impacting society negatively (excessively so at least) and that their net benefit to society is a plus. These rules change from time to time. There isn't a reason that long term externalized costs should be allowed to be pushed onto society as a whole in the interests of these entities realizing short term profits. That happens far too often and will be the death of capitalism as we know it if left unchecked. We as a society should demand better. Unfortunately, government all too often isn't the solution to the problem and the cures it provides are sometimes worse than what was attempting to be cured. But we need to keep the proper role of corporations in mind and demand a level of accountability. Not doing so leads to a very bad place.