4 ms·

It's been clear for a very long time - what's needed is: Opportunities for creation of wealth, access to health care and specifically mental health care and lot

by benevol 11y ago

It's been clear for a very long time - what's needed is: Opportunities for creation of wealth, access to health care and specifically mental health care and lots of education. Next.

kobayashi 11y ago
There is absolutely no credible, facts-driven research to suggest that lack of wealth, access to health care, access to mental health care, or access to education have a direct correlation to individuals joining terrorist groups or the rise of such groups. It's just a common trope repeated because it fits with people's existing ideologies. Terrorism is much more complicated than that.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  I'll agree with you there. Among impoverished and religious, they're still a tiny percentage. It's definitely complex what causes the individuals to convert. However, the factors that promote it seem pretty consistent. ;)
  - kobayashi 11y ago
    I'd say that the factors are anything but consistent. The closest thing to consistency is the personal desire for an all-encompassing identity, being a part of something bigger than one's self, and being raised in a society or culture that reveres illiberalism and the combination of religion and state.
    - nickpsecurity 11y ago
      You don't think infusion of cash, weapons, and power vacuums into such areas by world's power players are a consistent factor?
      - kobayashi 11y ago
        The occurrence or absence of cash is too broad to draw a correlation to terrorism. Same goes for weapons. Power vacuums enable organized actors but those same actors (in this case Islamists) can also gain a foothold by coopting the democratic process of a powerful state. None of those things address the mentality of terrorists or the ideology of groups that give rise to organized terrorism.
- gte525u 11y ago
  That's a bit generalizing. This paper[1] talks about the over-representation of engineers in violent Islamic organizations. Specifically talks about how there are fewer engineers in Saudi Arabia and Indonesia versus Palestine and other countries in the same type of groups. There seems to be /some/ correlation between economic opportunity and sub-segments of the population joining these types of groups. [1] http://www.sociology.ox.ac.uk/materials/papers/2007-10.pdf http://www.sociology.ox.ac.uk/materials/papers/2007-10.pdf
  - kobayashi 11y ago
    I can't read the paper now but I've read on that specific topic before. The assertions were usually that people drawn to the clear-cut answers of engineering also wanted to organize the world with definitive rights and wrongs, and those 'black or white, no shades of grey' people are more likely to agree with the zealotry of terrorist groups.
    - gte525u 11y ago
      Same paper - while monoism/simplism/preservatism argument is one of the three major points the full paper. The rest is worth the time to read.
_prototype_ 11y ago
You know, I often ask myself when presented with your argument: How come we don't hear about suicide bombings or mass (targeted) killings against Paris/Europe, US or other western nations by the multitude of poor, highly uneducated peoples of various (christian) countries in Central or South America (or christian majority countries in Africa even). Sure they have killings and other bad things happen, but usually contained within the country. I see Islam (I don't see a difference between the so called "extreme islam" and "moderate islam" as their holy text is pretty clear that it is extreme"

by benevol 11y ago

It's been clear for a very long time - what's needed is: Opportunities for creation of wealth, access to health care and specifically mental health care and lots of education. Next.

kobayashi 11y ago

There is absolutely no credible, facts-driven research to suggest that lack of wealth, access to health care, access to mental health care, or access to education have a direct correlation to individuals joining terrorist groups or the rise of such groups. It's just a common trope repeated because it fits with people's existing ideologies. Terrorism is much more complicated than that.

nickpsecurity 11y ago
I'll agree with you there. Among impoverished and religious, they're still a tiny percentage. It's definitely complex what causes the individuals to convert. However, the factors that promote it seem pretty consistent. ;)
- kobayashi 11y ago
  I'd say that the factors are anything but consistent. The closest thing to consistency is the personal desire for an all-encompassing identity, being a part of something bigger than one's self, and being raised in a society or culture that reveres illiberalism and the combination of religion and state.
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    You don't think infusion of cash, weapons, and power vacuums into such areas by world's power players are a consistent factor?
    - kobayashi 11y ago
      The occurrence or absence of cash is too broad to draw a correlation to terrorism. Same goes for weapons. Power vacuums enable organized actors but those same actors (in this case Islamists) can also gain a foothold by coopting the democratic process of a powerful state. None of those things address the mentality of terrorists or the ideology of groups that give rise to organized terrorism.
gte525u 11y ago
That's a bit generalizing. This paper[1] talks about the over-representation of engineers in violent Islamic organizations. Specifically talks about how there are fewer engineers in Saudi Arabia and Indonesia versus Palestine and other countries in the same type of groups. There seems to be /some/ correlation between economic opportunity and sub-segments of the population joining these types of groups. [1] http://www.sociology.ox.ac.uk/materials/papers/2007-10.pdf http://www.sociology.ox.ac.uk/materials/papers/2007-10.pdf
- kobayashi 11y ago
  I can't read the paper now but I've read on that specific topic before. The assertions were usually that people drawn to the clear-cut answers of engineering also wanted to organize the world with definitive rights and wrongs, and those 'black or white, no shades of grey' people are more likely to agree with the zealotry of terrorist groups.
  - gte525u 11y ago
    Same paper - while monoism/simplism/preservatism argument is one of the three major points the full paper. The rest is worth the time to read.

_prototype_ 11y ago

You know, I often ask myself when presented with your argument: How come we don't hear about suicide bombings or mass (targeted) killings against Paris/Europe, US or other western nations by the multitude of poor, highly uneducated peoples of various (christian) countries in Central or South America (or christian majority countries in Africa even). Sure they have killings and other bad things happen, but usually contained within the country. I see Islam (I don't see a difference between the so called "extreme islam" and "moderate islam" as their holy text is pretty clear that it is extreme"