7 ms·

30 days of tvOS sales numbers

14 points by kennywinker 11y ago

cballard 11y ago
I have an Apple TV (dev kit, I wouldn't have paid for one, but it's pretty nice actually). I haven't used a single app besides Netflix and AirPlay (which isn't really an app), and I'm not even sure why I'd want to use an app on my TV instead of just using my MacBook Pro. I feel like this will end up the same way as the Mac App Store: no one will make money, besides massive players. Most of the benefit is that I don't need to plug my laptop into the projector to watch shows now. Unless it's an Amazon show.
- kennywinker 11y ago
  My thinking, and both my apps reflect this, is that tvOS apps are for shared use. Family and friends, rather than personal use (for which your phone or your MacBook is better suited). Another example of an app class that makes more sense on tvOS than on the Mac is status boards, and a few apps that do that have been recently released. p.s. Amazon has said they have an app in the pipeline.
- untog 11y ago
  not even sure why I'd want to use an app on my TV instead of just using my MacBook Pro Do you ever decide what to watch with other people? That's the killer function for these TV apps for me (though I have a Roku, not Apple TV). I can sit on the sofa with my girlfriend and we can browse through the list of TV shows/movies together and choose one, rather than having to both crowd around a laptop, or worse, phone screen to decide.
  - increment_i 11y ago
    Are you describing the Netflix app? Because that was actually the one thing the poster said he would use on a TV.
  - abruzzi 11y ago
    I think to some extent it depends on what you see apps as on a device like the AppleTV. To me the big potential draw of app on a TV is access to other content streams that Apple hasn't negotiated contracts with. So while on my old AppleTV I can watch iTunes content, Netflix and HBO, a smaller content provider can build and submit an app. I can also get apps to stream local content. For this kind of use using a MacBook or iPad is not a very good substitute. On the other hand, if you are looking at filling the position of a Wii or XBox, and you game solo, than the laptop or iPad might have material advantages over a TV app, especially if you always play solo.
  - cballard 11y ago
    Right, that's why I said the only thing I use is the Netflix app. Substitute with Hulu, iTunes, Amazon Prime (err, well, not that one), etc. for the service that you use.
lsiunsuex 11y ago
I have an Apple TV dev kit and I would have paid for it had they not given me one for free (may still for the bedroom) I have downloaded apps - both free (Netflix, Crackle, HBO, etc...) as well as paid for apps - Geometry Wars 3 just this weekend. I have an XBox One also - It's just much quicker / easier to just flip over to Apple TV and start a game then to go through the whole process of booting the XBox, putting in a game, etc... I'm not a hardcore gamer by any means but I play when I need a break. Missing from Apple TV still are Pandora / Spotify / others... I'd like to see some party games - trivia, card, etc... It's definitely difficult to find new apps - the on screen keyboard is garbage and really needs to be worked out. Just give us a nice vertical scrolling list with categories on the left. IMO - it's still very new and developers are trying new stuff - see what works / what doesn't. The Netflix app is an example of this - the new interface is absolute garbage. I've actually fired up my XBox to use Netflix on that instead of Apple TV now...
- jbigelow76 11y ago
  Missing Spotify is killer for me, it's actually tempting me to try Apple Music since I anticipate having an Apple TV connected to my other TVs in the house sooner or later. It doesn't even seem to be an issue of Apple blocking Spotify to try and steer users to AM, Spotify just hasn't created an app yet (no idea if it would get approved though). Seems like a strategic mistake on Spotify's part.
  - jimminy 11y ago
    I've seen this issue for several apps (Spotify, Amazon Video, etc.), and I always just shrug it off. You can use both with an AppleTV, but the application has to be installed on a secondary device like an iPhone and then streamed via Airplay. Both of the explicitly mentioned applications work great, with that one exception of not having a native application on the device.
bhouston 11y ago
I was going to update our existing AppleTV but it is expensive. Going to try Chromecast.
tvon 11y ago
Serious question, would anyone expect to have much in the way of sales for a dice rolling app or a stock gif collection on any other platform?
- nsxwolf 11y ago
  I'm stunned he got any purchases at all. Who would pay for an app to roll dice on your TV set? The purchases were probably accidental. Aside: I always get a kick out of how these posts have to mention the very small number of hours that were spent making the simple app. I bet it was actually more.
  - kennywinker 11y ago
    People who want to play board games, but have lost their dice. It's a small market, but I think I've cornered it.
    - nsxwolf 11y ago
      Did you release a smart phone version too?
      - kennywinker 11y ago
        No, that market is already saturated. ;P
outericky 11y ago
The appletv has some horrid UX problems. The text input is horrid. Siri works well enough for searching video content (though i wish there was a way to disable itunes; always get my hopes up just to find that it requires an itunes purchase). App discovery is horrid. It's not easy to find apps, and if you aren't within the first set you'll never find it. There is no way to discover via computer or phone and send to appletv, so it's basically a no go. The only exposed apps are the featured or most popular. After that it's guesswork at best.
mikeryan 11y ago
These download numbers are depressing, and I, like most developers who have tvOS apps, blame discoverability. What that means is that there are just too few ways for users to find or be shown tvOS apps Seriously? "Hey I threw together a couple of apps in a few days and they're not being downloaded. Obviously not enough folks are discovering them". Apps for these types of platforms are hard. But most folks want to watch video (or play games) on their TV. They don't want to roll dice, or view Gif slideshows.
- potatolicious 11y ago
  The App Store is shit for discoverability - and I suspect the lack of an easy keyboard makes it even worse on Apple TV. But even if the discoverability were top notch, this still wouldn't be discoverable. Does author seriously expect a properly functioning app discovery engine to prominently surface a dice roller, or a gif browser? There are many, many legitimate complaints against the App Store model and how tough it is to survive as an app developer within that ecosystem, but the base requirement is still "building something good that people want", and I really don't feel like the author did that.
  - kennywinker 11y ago
    Author here! I don't expect the app store to surface any particular app, just not get in the way of finding things. I'm lucky, you only have to swipe across three tabs and type in two letters to find my app. Apple has said explicitly: "The future of TV is apps". If that's the case, then all I ask is for a way to link users to my app.
    - chaz72 11y ago
      What would your ideal discovery process be?
      - kennywinker 11y ago
        Ideally - user curated app lists. Start with celebs and notable people from various industries. If it's successful, eventually expand to everyone, not just selected people. Allow curated lists to be updated by the curator whenever they want. That's a longer term solution I see. Short term, I just want you to be able to click a button in iTunes on your Mac and in the App Store on your phone to start the app downloading on your TV. That way I could put a link in this comment and anyone who sees it and is interested can get the app in two clicks.
prawn 11y ago
Given that Features are an effective way of getting traction, why create anything but apps that will get featured? i.e., not a dice game. I also have a theory that Apple are partial to apps that will make them money, so a free app (unless monetised with Apple's ad platform) may struggle a bit. Two of us in my office got dev kits and had Streaks Workout ready for ATV launch. Have had a couple of features and charted OK. Nothing crazy, but more than a handful of sales each day and the app is priced at about US$3.50. Discoverability is poor but so are a lot of the apps out there.
- kennywinker 11y ago
  For perspective, Apple is currently featuring a different gif slideshow app in at least the canadian app store. Getting featured wasn't my primary goal, but it's never been out of the question
chrisBob 11y ago
How many Apple TV's are out there? I am surprised that your numbers are as high as they are for GifTV. I think it is safe to assume that roughly 0 people have used the Siri Remote to type in "GIF Slideshow", but 10 people per day are still installing the app. Maybe my expectations are just much lower. When I put a hundred hours or so into a game and upload it to the app store with no marketing I only expect about a hundred downloads. I keep buying app store lottery tickets, but I don't expect any of them to win. My next one will be for the Apple TV in the next few days and we will see if that does any better.
- kennywinker 11y ago
  I'd love to hear about your experience! Always nice to get perspective on what strategies are working and what are not.

14 points by kennywinker 11y ago

I have an Apple TV (dev kit, I wouldn't have paid for one, but it's pretty nice actually). I haven't used a single app besides Netflix and AirPlay (which isn't really an app), and I'm not even sure why I'd want to use an app on my TV instead of just using my MacBook Pro. I feel like this will end up the same way as the Mac App Store: no one will make money, besides massive players. Most of the benefit is that I don't need to plug my laptop into the projector to watch shows now. Unless it's an Amazon show.

kennywinker 11y ago
My thinking, and both my apps reflect this, is that tvOS apps are for shared use. Family and friends, rather than personal use (for which your phone or your MacBook is better suited). Another example of an app class that makes more sense on tvOS than on the Mac is status boards, and a few apps that do that have been recently released. p.s. Amazon has said they have an app in the pipeline.
untog 11y ago
not even sure why I'd want to use an app on my TV instead of just using my MacBook Pro Do you ever decide what to watch with other people? That's the killer function for these TV apps for me (though I have a Roku, not Apple TV). I can sit on the sofa with my girlfriend and we can browse through the list of TV shows/movies together and choose one, rather than having to both crowd around a laptop, or worse, phone screen to decide.
- increment_i 11y ago
  Are you describing the Netflix app? Because that was actually the one thing the poster said he would use on a TV.
- abruzzi 11y ago
  I think to some extent it depends on what you see apps as on a device like the AppleTV. To me the big potential draw of app on a TV is access to other content streams that Apple hasn't negotiated contracts with. So while on my old AppleTV I can watch iTunes content, Netflix and HBO, a smaller content provider can build and submit an app. I can also get apps to stream local content. For this kind of use using a MacBook or iPad is not a very good substitute. On the other hand, if you are looking at filling the position of a Wii or XBox, and you game solo, than the laptop or iPad might have material advantages over a TV app, especially if you always play solo.
- cballard 11y ago
  Right, that's why I said the only thing I use is the Netflix app. Substitute with Hulu, iTunes, Amazon Prime (err, well, not that one), etc. for the service that you use.

lsiunsuex 11y ago

I have an Apple TV dev kit and I would have paid for it had they not given me one for free (may still for the bedroom) I have downloaded apps - both free (Netflix, Crackle, HBO, etc...) as well as paid for apps - Geometry Wars 3 just this weekend. I have an XBox One also - It's just much quicker / easier to just flip over to Apple TV and start a game then to go through the whole process of booting the XBox, putting in a game, etc... I'm not a hardcore gamer by any means but I play when I need a break. Missing from Apple TV still are Pandora / Spotify / others... I'd like to see some party games - trivia, card, etc... It's definitely difficult to find new apps - the on screen keyboard is garbage and really needs to be worked out. Just give us a nice vertical scrolling list with categories on the left. IMO - it's still very new and developers are trying new stuff - see what works / what doesn't. The Netflix app is an example of this - the new interface is absolute garbage. I've actually fired up my XBox to use Netflix on that instead of Apple TV now...

jbigelow76 11y ago
Missing Spotify is killer for me, it's actually tempting me to try Apple Music since I anticipate having an Apple TV connected to my other TVs in the house sooner or later. It doesn't even seem to be an issue of Apple blocking Spotify to try and steer users to AM, Spotify just hasn't created an app yet (no idea if it would get approved though). Seems like a strategic mistake on Spotify's part.
- jimminy 11y ago
  I've seen this issue for several apps (Spotify, Amazon Video, etc.), and I always just shrug it off. You can use both with an AppleTV, but the application has to be installed on a secondary device like an iPhone and then streamed via Airplay. Both of the explicitly mentioned applications work great, with that one exception of not having a native application on the device.

bhouston 11y ago

I was going to update our existing AppleTV but it is expensive. Going to try Chromecast.

tvon 11y ago

Serious question, would anyone expect to have much in the way of sales for a dice rolling app or a stock gif collection on any other platform?

nsxwolf 11y ago
I'm stunned he got any purchases at all. Who would pay for an app to roll dice on your TV set? The purchases were probably accidental. Aside: I always get a kick out of how these posts have to mention the very small number of hours that were spent making the simple app. I bet it was actually more.
- kennywinker 11y ago
  People who want to play board games, but have lost their dice. It's a small market, but I think I've cornered it.
  - nsxwolf 11y ago
    Did you release a smart phone version too?
    - kennywinker 11y ago
      No, that market is already saturated. ;P

outericky 11y ago

The appletv has some horrid UX problems. The text input is horrid. Siri works well enough for searching video content (though i wish there was a way to disable itunes; always get my hopes up just to find that it requires an itunes purchase). App discovery is horrid. It's not easy to find apps, and if you aren't within the first set you'll never find it. There is no way to discover via computer or phone and send to appletv, so it's basically a no go. The only exposed apps are the featured or most popular. After that it's guesswork at best.

mikeryan 11y ago

These download numbers are depressing, and I, like most developers who have tvOS apps, blame discoverability. What that means is that there are just too few ways for users to find or be shown tvOS apps Seriously? "Hey I threw together a couple of apps in a few days and they're not being downloaded. Obviously not enough folks are discovering them". Apps for these types of platforms are hard. But most folks want to watch video (or play games) on their TV. They don't want to roll dice, or view Gif slideshows.

potatolicious 11y ago
The App Store is shit for discoverability - and I suspect the lack of an easy keyboard makes it even worse on Apple TV. But even if the discoverability were top notch, this still wouldn't be discoverable. Does author seriously expect a properly functioning app discovery engine to prominently surface a dice roller, or a gif browser? There are many, many legitimate complaints against the App Store model and how tough it is to survive as an app developer within that ecosystem, but the base requirement is still "building something good that people want", and I really don't feel like the author did that.
- kennywinker 11y ago
  Author here! I don't expect the app store to surface any particular app, just not get in the way of finding things. I'm lucky, you only have to swipe across three tabs and type in two letters to find my app. Apple has said explicitly: "The future of TV is apps". If that's the case, then all I ask is for a way to link users to my app.
  - chaz72 11y ago
    What would your ideal discovery process be?
    - kennywinker 11y ago
      Ideally - user curated app lists. Start with celebs and notable people from various industries. If it's successful, eventually expand to everyone, not just selected people. Allow curated lists to be updated by the curator whenever they want. That's a longer term solution I see. Short term, I just want you to be able to click a button in iTunes on your Mac and in the App Store on your phone to start the app downloading on your TV. That way I could put a link in this comment and anyone who sees it and is interested can get the app in two clicks.

prawn 11y ago

Given that Features are an effective way of getting traction, why create anything but apps that will get featured? i.e., not a dice game. I also have a theory that Apple are partial to apps that will make them money, so a free app (unless monetised with Apple's ad platform) may struggle a bit. Two of us in my office got dev kits and had Streaks Workout ready for ATV launch. Have had a couple of features and charted OK. Nothing crazy, but more than a handful of sales each day and the app is priced at about US$3.50. Discoverability is poor but so are a lot of the apps out there.

kennywinker 11y ago
For perspective, Apple is currently featuring a different gif slideshow app in at least the canadian app store. Getting featured wasn't my primary goal, but it's never been out of the question

chrisBob 11y ago

How many Apple TV's are out there? I am surprised that your numbers are as high as they are for GifTV. I think it is safe to assume that roughly 0 people have used the Siri Remote to type in "GIF Slideshow", but 10 people per day are still installing the app. Maybe my expectations are just much lower. When I put a hundred hours or so into a game and upload it to the app store with no marketing I only expect about a hundred downloads. I keep buying app store lottery tickets, but I don't expect any of them to win. My next one will be for the Apple TV in the next few days and we will see if that does any better.

kennywinker 11y ago
I'd love to hear about your experience! Always nice to get perspective on what strategies are working and what are not.