5 ms·

How Cocaine Changes the Brain

58 points by snake117 11y ago

iandanforth 11y ago
To understand these results you may need to know that dopamine is not the "reward" signal it was once characterised as. Instead it is closer to a "motivation" signal. Without it you do nothing, with lots of it you are highly motivated to just about anything.
- derefr 11y ago
  I would argue that, while people can redirect the stimulation from dopaminergics to get "motivated to [do] just about anything", the usual effects when the drug-user sets no specific goals are actually rather more specific. Almost everyone who takes weaker amphetamines like Adderall ends up developing a cleaning compulsion; almost everyone who takes meth ends up developing a compulsion to pick at their own skin. The link I've seen suggested is that these are instinctual "foraging/grooming" behaviors, all using the same neural hardware related to finding small imperfections/differences in a scene.
- _98fj 11y ago
  My favorite way of thinking about it is regulating expectation or giving an emotional reason to do something. ("I feel like I should do this")
rogeryu 11y ago
Good to know is that the first time you take cocaine, it works about 1000 times stronger than the natural drugs in your brain, and thus the natural highs you get. These are the normal highs you get when you score a goal in sports, when you get an A for your exam, when the girl or boy you like wants to kiss you etc. So the first time(s) you use cocaine, you get a high that's incredible. The second time, this effect is about 100 times stronger than usual, so 10 times less strong than the first time. Then you want to go back to that first unbelievable fantastic time, and take more. You may get at 200, but the more often you take it, the less the effect, and the stronger the craving for it. This is more or less how (this) addiction works. The numbers I use here may be different, but it shows more or less how it works. Well as far as I understood it from the book Why Zebras don't get Ulcers which is about stress and all its side effects. http://www.amazon.com/Zebras-Dont-Ulcers-Third-Edition/dp/0805073698 http://www.amazon.com/Zebras-Dont-Ulcers-Third-Edition/dp/08...
- golergka 11y ago
  > So the first time(s) you use cocaine, you get a high that's incredible. The second time, this effect is about 100 times stronger than usual, so 10 times less strong than the first time. > Then you want to go back to that first unbelievable fantastic time, and take more. You may get at 200, but the more often you take it, the less the effect, and the stronger the craving for it. This is more or less how (this) addiction works. Isn't this a common sense regarding drugs in general? I mean, this sentiment is repeated constantly through the fictional depiction of drugs and through the media.
  - cbsmith 11y ago
    Not at all. Lots of prescription medications actually take a while to really have an effect., and hallucinogens & psychedelics have all kids of "echo effects" on subsequent use.
  - eru 11y ago
    From what I've heard, weed seems to work better after the first few tries.
    - golergka 11y ago
      In my personal experience, the opposite is true: the first times are the most intensive ones.
    - ionised 11y ago
      That wasn't my experience when I used to smoke. The first time I ever got stoned was the most effective.
      - adrusi 11y ago
        Many people experience no effects at all the first or second time they consume it, but then when they finally are affected by it, that experience will be the most effective.
    - 11y ago
nugga 11y ago
From a harm reduction standpoint I wish they'd also research how long it takes until you return to baseline sensitivity or if at all. What is the approximate frequency and dose that you can take cocaine at where it's non destructive?
- Absentinsomniac 11y ago
  Exactly. Definitely not enough research taking a harm reduction approach. There's quite a bit of short term research on a lot of things that give some basic insights, but don't add additional variables that are useful even if adding them isn't particularly difficult. Long term studies are obviously harder, but for prescription amphetamines which have been around for a while, you'd think we'd have some decent research on the long term effects on cognition. But nope, there's way more research on long term cognitive effects of cocaine than amphetamines. And even that research doesn't seem to focus on harm reduction and best practices.

58 points by snake117 11y ago

To understand these results you may need to know that dopamine is not the "reward" signal it was once characterised as. Instead it is closer to a "motivation" signal. Without it you do nothing, with lots of it you are highly motivated to just about anything.

derefr 11y ago
I would argue that, while people can redirect the stimulation from dopaminergics to get "motivated to [do] just about anything", the usual effects when the drug-user sets no specific goals are actually rather more specific. Almost everyone who takes weaker amphetamines like Adderall ends up developing a cleaning compulsion; almost everyone who takes meth ends up developing a compulsion to pick at their own skin. The link I've seen suggested is that these are instinctual "foraging/grooming" behaviors, all using the same neural hardware related to finding small imperfections/differences in a scene.
_98fj 11y ago
My favorite way of thinking about it is regulating expectation or giving an emotional reason to do something. ("I feel like I should do this")

rogeryu 11y ago

Good to know is that the first time you take cocaine, it works about 1000 times stronger than the natural drugs in your brain, and thus the natural highs you get. These are the normal highs you get when you score a goal in sports, when you get an A for your exam, when the girl or boy you like wants to kiss you etc. So the first time(s) you use cocaine, you get a high that's incredible. The second time, this effect is about 100 times stronger than usual, so 10 times less strong than the first time. Then you want to go back to that first unbelievable fantastic time, and take more. You may get at 200, but the more often you take it, the less the effect, and the stronger the craving for it. This is more or less how (this) addiction works. The numbers I use here may be different, but it shows more or less how it works. Well as far as I understood it from the book Why Zebras don't get Ulcers which is about stress and all its side effects. http://www.amazon.com/Zebras-Dont-Ulcers-Third-Edition/dp/0805073698 http://www.amazon.com/Zebras-Dont-Ulcers-Third-Edition/dp/08...

golergka 11y ago
> So the first time(s) you use cocaine, you get a high that's incredible. The second time, this effect is about 100 times stronger than usual, so 10 times less strong than the first time. > Then you want to go back to that first unbelievable fantastic time, and take more. You may get at 200, but the more often you take it, the less the effect, and the stronger the craving for it. This is more or less how (this) addiction works. Isn't this a common sense regarding drugs in general? I mean, this sentiment is repeated constantly through the fictional depiction of drugs and through the media.
- cbsmith 11y ago
  Not at all. Lots of prescription medications actually take a while to really have an effect., and hallucinogens & psychedelics have all kids of "echo effects" on subsequent use.
- eru 11y ago
  From what I've heard, weed seems to work better after the first few tries.
  - golergka 11y ago
    In my personal experience, the opposite is true: the first times are the most intensive ones.
  - ionised 11y ago
    That wasn't my experience when I used to smoke. The first time I ever got stoned was the most effective.
    - adrusi 11y ago
      Many people experience no effects at all the first or second time they consume it, but then when they finally are affected by it, that experience will be the most effective.
  - 11y ago

nugga 11y ago

From a harm reduction standpoint I wish they'd also research how long it takes until you return to baseline sensitivity or if at all. What is the approximate frequency and dose that you can take cocaine at where it's non destructive?

Absentinsomniac 11y ago
Exactly. Definitely not enough research taking a harm reduction approach. There's quite a bit of short term research on a lot of things that give some basic insights, but don't add additional variables that are useful even if adding them isn't particularly difficult. Long term studies are obviously harder, but for prescription amphetamines which have been around for a while, you'd think we'd have some decent research on the long term effects on cognition. But nope, there's way more research on long term cognitive effects of cocaine than amphetamines. And even that research doesn't seem to focus on harm reduction and best practices.