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Their FAQ (https://wiki.mozilla.org/Donate#Don.27t_Mozilla_products.2C_like_Firefox.2C_earn_income.3F https://wiki.mozilla.org/Donate#Don.27t_Mozilla_products.2

Their FAQ (https://wiki.mozilla.org/Donate#Don.27t_Mozilla_products.2C_like_Firefox.2C_earn_income.3F https://wiki.mozilla.org/Donate#Don.27t_Mozilla_products.2C_...) contains pretty important information. In particular, it answers why one should donate when Mozilla Corp makes money through corporate deals (e.g. Google and Yahoo search commissions). The answer is that all the money Mozilla Corp makes is reinvested back into Mozilla Corp (salaries etc). The Mozilla Foundation -- a non-profit which wholly owns Mozilla Corp -- is not funded by Mozilla Corp, but relies entirely on donations. Mozilla Foundations is responsible for philantropic education and awareness campaigns. So this link is not about donating to Mozilla Corp, where the bulk of Firefox development happens. It's about donating to Mozilla Foundation.

melling 11y ago
Less than a week ago Mozilla said they don't need the millions from Google. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10630996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10630996
- richardboegli 11y ago
  You just beat me to this :)
- amooiman 11y ago
  As @FooBarWidget says, this is about donating to the Mozilla Foundation, not the Corporation (which builds Firefox products). I'm an employee at the Foundation, and these donations help us keep running and working towards our mission, backed by these principles: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/
  - melling 11y ago
    All sounds warm and fuzzy to me. The Foundation should try to be more concrete in explaining what they do, and are currently accomplishing. Maybe this is already explained somewhere but I have no idea, and I'm a regular reader of HN, for example. Most people will spend even less time looking into it. The Mozilla Foundation/Corporation thing will only confuse people. Anyway, I'm donating kharma by explaining all of this. I'm done for now.
    - FooBarWidget 11y ago
      So what you're saying is that you have a negative/cynic view about Mozilla Corp/Foundation, but couldn't be bothered to read the rest of their website to find out whether your view is correct, and won't change your viewpoint until someone makes it easy for you?
      - dhemmerling 11y ago
        I think they're saying it's not the best way to go about asking someone for a gift of money. It's not all that cynical to be skeptical of vaguely defined goals.
amooiman 11y ago
This is exactly right. I'm an engineer at the non-profit Mozilla Foundation, and these donations keep us working towards our mission (found at https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/details/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/details/).
- J_Darnley 11y ago
  Would that be your mission to copy Chrome as much as possible?
- hack_edu 11y ago
  Now if only it all wasn't spent on the current massive expansion of the Marketing team and their new executive's salaries. The new CMO has a very checkered history with questionable results. Very much the nepotist who manages to pack his team with former colleagues. Its a big and divisive internal issue right now. :(
  - orbitur 11y ago
    At Mozilla Foundation? Got any links to discussions?
    - hack_edu 11y ago
      Admittedly, its all off record hearsay as it's not to smart to talk badly about your C-levels in public discussion. Though I must say, as a user its hard to sincerely distinguish the business motives of Firefox from other parts of the org. Especially in the recent push of the browser.
      - caseysoftware 11y ago
        > not to smart to talk badly about your C-levels in public discussion For certain things. But for badthink, seek and destroy.
    - zrail 11y ago
      The latest IRS Form 990 for the Mozilla Foundation I can find is here: https://static.mozilla.com/moco/en-US/pdf/2013_Mozilla_Foundation_Fed_990_Public_Disclosure.pdf https://static.mozilla.com/moco/en-US/pdf/2013_Mozilla_Found... It's two years old, but if you go through it you'll see some very large numbers in the officer compensation lines, but it's mostly from "related organizations" and not the foundation itself. I'm not really sure how to parse it, and it may have changed in the last 2 years.
newhnuser1 11y ago
I used to donate five dollar per month for different free and open source software or foundations, I've given numerous such five dollars to Mozilla. However, Mozilla project is dead to me now. Firefox is getting objectively worse (XUL removal, Pocket etc.) and the Mozilla project lost when they carve into the bullies when the CEO was forced to resign for some random donations. I don't if you donate to Hitler, it's his personal money, what do you care. Mozilla cannot champion the open web. The open web is dead. Instead donate to OpenBSD or FSF.
- wwzuk 11y ago
  I was thinking the same, but tried not to post it earlier. Mozilla as a complete entity is too politically progressive for my tastes. It used to be something I looked up to because the technology was portable, configurable and just worked. I am not saying their competitors are any better (as I don't know).
- PedroBatista 11y ago
  Agree 100%. The whole Brendan Eich debacle ended my relationship with Mozilla, not because it was a "bump in the road" but because it was a manifestation of the insidious mob mentality that took over most of Mozilla. A significant proportion of "Mozillians" are either mercenaries trying to advance their career or SJW collecting the paycheck and using Mozilla as a platform for their own agendas, they couldn't care less about the Web and in the last 2/3 years the product shows it.
magicalist 11y ago
> The answer is that all the money Mozilla Corp makes is reinvested back into Mozilla Corp (salaries etc). The Mozilla Foundation -- a non-profit which wholly owns Mozilla Corp -- is not funded by Mozilla Corp, but relies entirely on donations. Mozilla Foundations is responsible for philantropic education and awareness campaigns. Like...what? This answer and the one below from the Foundation employee don't actually give any specifics. That's actually slightly alarming, as it's a guarantee that donations won't be directly supporting the browser (or Rust, or...) but will instead be going to some vaguely described campaigns. I'm all for marketing Firefox and defeating the TPP, but let's confirm that's exactly what we're talking about here (and get some examples of recent work). Mozilla in the name isn't enough when the only Mozilla I know is what this money isn't going to.
- FooBarWidget 11y ago
  You could just go to their website (www.mozilla.org) and find out.
  - magicalist 11y ago
    There really isn't much information there (or at least I can't find it). I'm not attacking here, just giving my impression as a potential donor, albeit with some skepticism. I was able to find information on the Ford-Mozilla Open Web Fellows program[1] and a list of events[2]. Funding for the first is obvious, for the second it seems like many of the events either aren't run by Mozilla, just recognized by them, or the funding isn't directly called out. It would be great to see broken down what funding actually goes to. mozilla.org, as I said, seems to just be banking mostly on the Mozilla name (the phrase "Donate to Mozilla, the non-profit behind Firefox" doesn't exactly keep things clear). The donate page has no information on the subject, the Donate FAQ is a wiki page with no information on the subject. As an example, the EFF has a great "Our Work" page[3], with a nice overview of a bunch of projects and big icons leading to really in-depth coverage of their work in each of six areas. The page also doubles as a nice portal into the subjects of interest themselves, if you want to know more. [1] https://advocacy.mozilla.org/open-web-fellows/ https://advocacy.mozilla.org/open-web-fellows/ [2] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/events/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/events/ [3] https://www.eff.org/issues https://www.eff.org/issues
simula67 11y ago
> Mozilla Corp makes money through corporate deals >The Mozilla Foundation -- a non-profit which wholly owns Mozilla Corp -- is not funded by Mozilla Corp Why not ?
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  Because Mozilla Foundation, which is the sole owner of Mozilla Corp, has decided not to extract money from Mozilla Corp.
- bzbarsky 11y ago
  The Mozilla Foundation _is_ funded by Mozilla Corp to some extent. As I understand it, the amount to which it can be thus funded, while retaining its nonprofit status, depends on the amount of other donations that it gets. Nonprofits who get too much of their funding from a single source apparently lose their status.
kentrado 11y ago
Please don't donate to the Mozilla Foundation or any other software foundation for that matter. Most of the time they are over politicized and the money is used to pay the salaries of open source politicians or to fund campaigns that they will put in their resume so that they can get a big execs job once they get tired of their open source stepping stone. It is not about technology, as they say, it about "people". What you might not know is that the people they are mainly concerned about is themselves. It is very hard to corrupt, defraud, steal and cheat on a project that is just about technology. So they have to make it about something else, something that transcends technology so that they don't have to accountable by any metric. All of this, am sure, may sound a bit harsh for people who are unaware of the inner workings of foundations behind their political, marketing façade. However, it should come to no surprise to anyone who has had any experience with the government in the real world. We would like to think that open source is above all of that corruption and in some ways it is, but I have to repeat my previous point that Foundations aren't about OS, they are about "people". The corruption within Foundations is subtle, but it is present and I would like to argue that it is unavoidable. The reason being is that if tomorrow I get the job of chairman of the Mozilla Foundation, I will do my best to use the funds to promote campaigns that will look good on my resume to that I can use it as leverage when I apply for a big execs job at Intel. I wouldn't give less of a shit, if those campaigns are ineffectual, wasteful or over politicized.
- RobertoG 11y ago
  It would be very naive to assume that this kind of things, that happens in all the human endeavours, don't happen in organizations that have "foundation" in the name. That doesn't mean that this can't be controlled (to some point) or that the foundation doesn't make any real good. Is it your experience directly about the Mozilla Foundation?

melling 11y ago

Less than a week ago Mozilla said they don't need the millions from Google. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10630996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10630996

richardboegli 11y ago
You just beat me to this :)
amooiman 11y ago
As @FooBarWidget says, this is about donating to the Mozilla Foundation, not the Corporation (which builds Firefox products). I'm an employee at the Foundation, and these donations help us keep running and working towards our mission, backed by these principles: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/
- melling 11y ago
  All sounds warm and fuzzy to me. The Foundation should try to be more concrete in explaining what they do, and are currently accomplishing. Maybe this is already explained somewhere but I have no idea, and I'm a regular reader of HN, for example. Most people will spend even less time looking into it. The Mozilla Foundation/Corporation thing will only confuse people. Anyway, I'm donating kharma by explaining all of this. I'm done for now.
  - FooBarWidget 11y ago
    So what you're saying is that you have a negative/cynic view about Mozilla Corp/Foundation, but couldn't be bothered to read the rest of their website to find out whether your view is correct, and won't change your viewpoint until someone makes it easy for you?
    - dhemmerling 11y ago
      I think they're saying it's not the best way to go about asking someone for a gift of money. It's not all that cynical to be skeptical of vaguely defined goals.

amooiman 11y ago

This is exactly right. I'm an engineer at the non-profit Mozilla Foundation, and these donations keep us working towards our mission (found at https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/details/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/details/).

J_Darnley 11y ago
Would that be your mission to copy Chrome as much as possible?
hack_edu 11y ago
Now if only it all wasn't spent on the current massive expansion of the Marketing team and their new executive's salaries. The new CMO has a very checkered history with questionable results. Very much the nepotist who manages to pack his team with former colleagues. Its a big and divisive internal issue right now. :(
- orbitur 11y ago
  At Mozilla Foundation? Got any links to discussions?
  - hack_edu 11y ago
    Admittedly, its all off record hearsay as it's not to smart to talk badly about your C-levels in public discussion. Though I must say, as a user its hard to sincerely distinguish the business motives of Firefox from other parts of the org. Especially in the recent push of the browser.
    - caseysoftware 11y ago
      > not to smart to talk badly about your C-levels in public discussion For certain things. But for badthink, seek and destroy.
  - zrail 11y ago
    The latest IRS Form 990 for the Mozilla Foundation I can find is here: https://static.mozilla.com/moco/en-US/pdf/2013_Mozilla_Foundation_Fed_990_Public_Disclosure.pdf https://static.mozilla.com/moco/en-US/pdf/2013_Mozilla_Found... It's two years old, but if you go through it you'll see some very large numbers in the officer compensation lines, but it's mostly from "related organizations" and not the foundation itself. I'm not really sure how to parse it, and it may have changed in the last 2 years.

newhnuser1 11y ago

I used to donate five dollar per month for different free and open source software or foundations, I've given numerous such five dollars to Mozilla. However, Mozilla project is dead to me now. Firefox is getting objectively worse (XUL removal, Pocket etc.) and the Mozilla project lost when they carve into the bullies when the CEO was forced to resign for some random donations. I don't if you donate to Hitler, it's his personal money, what do you care. Mozilla cannot champion the open web. The open web is dead. Instead donate to OpenBSD or FSF.

wwzuk 11y ago
I was thinking the same, but tried not to post it earlier. Mozilla as a complete entity is too politically progressive for my tastes. It used to be something I looked up to because the technology was portable, configurable and just worked. I am not saying their competitors are any better (as I don't know).
PedroBatista 11y ago
Agree 100%. The whole Brendan Eich debacle ended my relationship with Mozilla, not because it was a "bump in the road" but because it was a manifestation of the insidious mob mentality that took over most of Mozilla. A significant proportion of "Mozillians" are either mercenaries trying to advance their career or SJW collecting the paycheck and using Mozilla as a platform for their own agendas, they couldn't care less about the Web and in the last 2/3 years the product shows it.

magicalist 11y ago

> The answer is that all the money Mozilla Corp makes is reinvested back into Mozilla Corp (salaries etc). The Mozilla Foundation -- a non-profit which wholly owns Mozilla Corp -- is not funded by Mozilla Corp, but relies entirely on donations. Mozilla Foundations is responsible for philantropic education and awareness campaigns. Like...what? This answer and the one below from the Foundation employee don't actually give any specifics. That's actually slightly alarming, as it's a guarantee that donations won't be directly supporting the browser (or Rust, or...) but will instead be going to some vaguely described campaigns. I'm all for marketing Firefox and defeating the TPP, but let's confirm that's exactly what we're talking about here (and get some examples of recent work). Mozilla in the name isn't enough when the only Mozilla I know is what this money isn't going to.

FooBarWidget 11y ago
You could just go to their website (www.mozilla.org) and find out.
- magicalist 11y ago
  There really isn't much information there (or at least I can't find it). I'm not attacking here, just giving my impression as a potential donor, albeit with some skepticism. I was able to find information on the Ford-Mozilla Open Web Fellows program[1] and a list of events[2]. Funding for the first is obvious, for the second it seems like many of the events either aren't run by Mozilla, just recognized by them, or the funding isn't directly called out. It would be great to see broken down what funding actually goes to. mozilla.org, as I said, seems to just be banking mostly on the Mozilla name (the phrase "Donate to Mozilla, the non-profit behind Firefox" doesn't exactly keep things clear). The donate page has no information on the subject, the Donate FAQ is a wiki page with no information on the subject. As an example, the EFF has a great "Our Work" page[3], with a nice overview of a bunch of projects and big icons leading to really in-depth coverage of their work in each of six areas. The page also doubles as a nice portal into the subjects of interest themselves, if you want to know more. [1] https://advocacy.mozilla.org/open-web-fellows/ https://advocacy.mozilla.org/open-web-fellows/ [2] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/events/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/events/ [3] https://www.eff.org/issues https://www.eff.org/issues

simula67 11y ago

> Mozilla Corp makes money through corporate deals >The Mozilla Foundation -- a non-profit which wholly owns Mozilla Corp -- is not funded by Mozilla Corp Why not ?

dragonwriter 11y ago
Because Mozilla Foundation, which is the sole owner of Mozilla Corp, has decided not to extract money from Mozilla Corp.
bzbarsky 11y ago
The Mozilla Foundation _is_ funded by Mozilla Corp to some extent. As I understand it, the amount to which it can be thus funded, while retaining its nonprofit status, depends on the amount of other donations that it gets. Nonprofits who get too much of their funding from a single source apparently lose their status.

kentrado 11y ago

Please don't donate to the Mozilla Foundation or any other software foundation for that matter. Most of the time they are over politicized and the money is used to pay the salaries of open source politicians or to fund campaigns that they will put in their resume so that they can get a big execs job once they get tired of their open source stepping stone. It is not about technology, as they say, it about "people". What you might not know is that the people they are mainly concerned about is themselves. It is very hard to corrupt, defraud, steal and cheat on a project that is just about technology. So they have to make it about something else, something that transcends technology so that they don't have to accountable by any metric. All of this, am sure, may sound a bit harsh for people who are unaware of the inner workings of foundations behind their political, marketing façade. However, it should come to no surprise to anyone who has had any experience with the government in the real world. We would like to think that open source is above all of that corruption and in some ways it is, but I have to repeat my previous point that Foundations aren't about OS, they are about "people". The corruption within Foundations is subtle, but it is present and I would like to argue that it is unavoidable. The reason being is that if tomorrow I get the job of chairman of the Mozilla Foundation, I will do my best to use the funds to promote campaigns that will look good on my resume to that I can use it as leverage when I apply for a big execs job at Intel. I wouldn't give less of a shit, if those campaigns are ineffectual, wasteful or over politicized.

RobertoG 11y ago
It would be very naive to assume that this kind of things, that happens in all the human endeavours, don't happen in organizations that have "foundation" in the name. That doesn't mean that this can't be controlled (to some point) or that the foundation doesn't make any real good. Is it your experience directly about the Mozilla Foundation?