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Why Hackers Must Welcome Social Justice Advocates

3 points by chei0aiV 11y ago

duncan_bayne 11y ago
The counterpoint: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6918 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6918 Edited: to clarify, the above link is the article to which Coraline is responding in her Medium piece. It's worth remembering also that Coraline - while not a contributor to a particular OSS project, OpalRb - attempted to have someone ousted from the project (or at least censured), because he wrote something she didn't like.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
  If you'd have bothered to read the article linked to, you'd have seen that ESR's post was the Point that's being Counter'd.
  - duncan_bayne 11y ago
    Read and replied, actually, if you'd bothered to read the replies to Coraline's piece ;)
  - duncan_bayne 11y ago
    My reply in full: ===== Coraline, Many of the stated goals of the social justice movement are noble. I hope that everyone involved in open source projects would support the idea that we need to eliminate barriers that have, for no good reason, historically prevented people from participation. What those opposed to the SJ movement in general take issue with is that the SJ movement isn’t just about those goals. It is becoming a means to silence people, a means to create the very sort of oppression of dissent that has so frequently been targeted at the minorities the SJ movement claims to represent. To take a concrete example, you wrote: “They are working to improve the state of open source from the inside.” In what way would you say your actions during the OpalGate saga were working towards improving the state of open source? A contributor to the project made a statement in public with which you disagreed. You then directly petitioned the project maintainers to eject him from the project[1]. I then raised a pull request[2] on your covenant, in an attempt to spell out that this sort of thing (penalising a contributor for speech outside the context of a project) was an unintended consequence of the system. It clearly wasn’t; the PR was rejected. Effectively “wontfix: by design”. To be blunt: based on observations of outspoken SJWs like yourself, hackers like myself think that there is an unspoken delta between your stated aims (which as I’ve said are often noble), and your practice, which is to use open source projects as a weapon against their contributors when they behave in politically unacceptable ways (e.g. OpalGate and Brendan Eich). [1] https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 [2] https://github.com/CoralineAda/contributor_covenant/pull/74 https://github.com/CoralineAda/contributor_covenant/pull/74 =====
rubyfan 11y ago
Is this a duplicate of: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10639838 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10639838
- J_Darnley 11y ago
  Yes. [EDIT] And here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10643788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10643788 and here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10642472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10642472 and here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10641336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10641336 HN should be stripping the non-existent anchor from the URL.
- detaro 11y ago
  There have been a few submissions, but all only got a very small number of comments: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Why%20Hackers%20Must%20Welcome%20Social%20Justice%20Advocates&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story&storyText=false&prefix&page=0 https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Why%20Hackers%20Must%20Welcome... Generally, a few double-submissions are ok, as long as none before has created a significant discussion, this situation is a bit weird...

3 points by chei0aiV 11y ago

The counterpoint: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6918 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6918 Edited: to clarify, the above link is the article to which Coraline is responding in her Medium piece. It's worth remembering also that Coraline - while not a contributor to a particular OSS project, OpalRb - attempted to have someone ousted from the project (or at least censured), because he wrote something she didn't like.

GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
If you'd have bothered to read the article linked to, you'd have seen that ESR's post was the Point that's being Counter'd.
- duncan_bayne 11y ago
  Read and replied, actually, if you'd bothered to read the replies to Coraline's piece ;)
- duncan_bayne 11y ago
  My reply in full: ===== Coraline, Many of the stated goals of the social justice movement are noble. I hope that everyone involved in open source projects would support the idea that we need to eliminate barriers that have, for no good reason, historically prevented people from participation. What those opposed to the SJ movement in general take issue with is that the SJ movement isn’t just about those goals. It is becoming a means to silence people, a means to create the very sort of oppression of dissent that has so frequently been targeted at the minorities the SJ movement claims to represent. To take a concrete example, you wrote: “They are working to improve the state of open source from the inside.” In what way would you say your actions during the OpalGate saga were working towards improving the state of open source? A contributor to the project made a statement in public with which you disagreed. You then directly petitioned the project maintainers to eject him from the project[1]. I then raised a pull request[2] on your covenant, in an attempt to spell out that this sort of thing (penalising a contributor for speech outside the context of a project) was an unintended consequence of the system. It clearly wasn’t; the PR was rejected. Effectively “wontfix: by design”. To be blunt: based on observations of outspoken SJWs like yourself, hackers like myself think that there is an unspoken delta between your stated aims (which as I’ve said are often noble), and your practice, which is to use open source projects as a weapon against their contributors when they behave in politically unacceptable ways (e.g. OpalGate and Brendan Eich). [1] https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 [2] https://github.com/CoralineAda/contributor_covenant/pull/74 https://github.com/CoralineAda/contributor_covenant/pull/74 =====

rubyfan 11y ago

Is this a duplicate of: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10639838 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10639838

J_Darnley 11y ago
Yes. [EDIT] And here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10643788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10643788 and here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10642472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10642472 and here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10641336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10641336 HN should be stripping the non-existent anchor from the URL.
detaro 11y ago
There have been a few submissions, but all only got a very small number of comments: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Why%20Hackers%20Must%20Welcome%20Social%20Justice%20Advocates&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story&storyText=false&prefix&page=0 https://hn.algolia.com/?query=Why%20Hackers%20Must%20Welcome... Generally, a few double-submissions are ok, as long as none before has created a significant discussion, this situation is a bit weird...