4 ms·

Haven't we established pretty firmly that apple software (for OSX and increasingly iOS) is crap? iTunes is a bloated mess, Safari is the new IE6, photos, calend

by hguant 11y ago

Haven't we established pretty firmly that apple software (for OSX and increasingly iOS) is crap? iTunes is a bloated mess, Safari is the new IE6, photos, calendar and Mail are so bad that pretty much everyone recommends Google or Microsoft replacements, Maps is a disaster. They make a great physical product, but more and more, the "it just works" tag line only applies to basic, trivial operations (and evidently, not even then) or as a punchline.

steven2012 11y ago
Apple is really treating their entire iPhone ecosystem like Microsoft did with their Windows OS back in the late 90s/early 2000s.. with complete arrogance and without any urgency. They are so comfortable in their success that they're are really badly losing focus on making the best software products they can. It makes me wonder, who in Apple is fucking this up so badly? Does no one care, or do they honestly think things are going great? I have to change my computer that I need to sync my iPhone with, and it's going to be very painful. Why? This is 2015. Why doesn't anyone in Apple with their thousands and thousands of highly paid engineers not care, and which VP or PM is responsible for their software offering now being the best it could be? I would love to know.
- therein 11y ago
  I used to work for Apple as a Software Engineer (in fact as a part of a team very relevant to this issue) and left very quickly. It was the most uninspiring place I had ever worked or even interviewed at.
- parasubvert 11y ago
  "I have to change my computer that I need to sync my iPhone with, and it's going to be very painful. Why? " I have the opposite question for you - why is it painful? Assuming you have a Mac, you just restore from a Time machine backup with Migration Assistant. A bit of massaging is required getting passwords reset, etc., and your new computer is basically identical to the old one. I just did this a couple of months ago moving my personal Macbook Pro account & apps to my family iMac. On the other hand, the same applies for any iOS device if you're on iCloud. A few months back, a friend broke their phone badly on a trip, I wiped one of my phones and handed it to them to use. They restored their stuff in a couple of hours, and were productive again. When they returned it, I restored and had my old phone back identical to what it was in a couple of hours. Other than a couple of passwords and the endless series annoying taps when first initializing an iOS phone (this could be much better), there were no problems. YMMV, but this stuff mostly works for me.
  - steven2012 11y ago
    I'm currently syncing on a very old MacBook and I want to move to my work MacBook. I can't Timemachine it.
    - parasubvert 11y ago
      For what it's worth, you can direct-connect the Migration Assistant as well via FireWire USB or (I think?) Ethernet.... I remember doing this back to the PowerBook days.
stephenr 11y ago
No? I'll agree iTunes needs work, and I've had some issues with iCloud Photo Library but this "Safari is the new ie6" thing is stupid. IE6 was never the most energy efficient browser on desktop or mobile devices. Mail contacts and calendar work well. They can even work with googles services if you like your email provider to read your mail before you do. Maps is anything but a disaster. Even in Thailand it gets me where I need to go when I don't know the way. You may have had bad experiences but don't assume that applies to all other users.
- vacri 11y ago
  > IE6 was never the most energy efficient browser on desktop or mobile devices "Browsing on mobile devices" didn't functionally exist when IE6 was released (2001). It would be years before 'mobile browsing' would be a usable thing. I loathe IE6 as much as the next non-frontend-dev, but you're asking IE6 to be something that it was impossible to be.
  - stephenr 11y ago
    > you're asking IE6 to be something that it was impossible to be I'm not the one claiming Safari is "the new IE 6". The person I replied to (and many others) make that comparison, I'm just re-focussing the argument. > "Browsing on mobile devices" didn't functionally exist when IE6 was released (2001). For the masses? No. For corporate types? Maybe you should look into Windows CE and Pocket Internet Explorer. The argument that Safari is "the new IE6" is because Apple focus on user-facing features as a priority over developer focused features. They prioritise energy efficiency (and thus battery life) over absolute raw performance. Microsoft never had that approach with IE6 - the issue with IE6 wasn't that the focus of development was in the "wrong" place by developer opinions, it's that there was no development focus - it stagnated and received no updates.
    - boundlessdreamz 11y ago
      > Microsoft never had that approach with IE6 - the issue with IE6 wasn't that the focus of development was in the "wrong" place by developer opinions, it's that there was no development focus - it stagnated and received no updates. Apart from being more power efficient, there doesn't seem to be much user or developer focused development in Safari. It seems to be stagnating
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
lobster_johnson 11y ago
It's actually been a long time since Maps was a disaster. They fixed the problems, and (in my opinion) it's now better than Google Maps. Safari's case as a "new IE6" has been overstated, I think. It's fast and standards-compliant, and it's not lagging that far behind in catching up to the newest tech, as far as I know. And it's not like the other browsers don't have their share of serious issues. Mail and Calendar are actually great for apps that come bundled with the OS. One shouldn't see it as a failure on Apple's part that people choose third-party alternatives. I'd also argue that they're better than most third-party apps. (I use Fantastical instead of Calendar, but only because it has the awesome system menu dropdown. I use Mail, because Sparrow is no longer available, Airmail is too buggy, and Thunderbird isn't native.) Photos is a great iPhoto replacement. It's a bad Aperture replacement, and some people have issues with iCloud, but if you don't need Aperture and don't have these iCloud issues (and doubt most people do), then it's fine. iTunes is the main problem. It's tragically, hilariously bad. It was a decent, not great, app back in the early 2000s, back when iPods were the norm. Now, it's a trainwreck.

by hguant 11y ago

steven2012 11y ago

Apple is really treating their entire iPhone ecosystem like Microsoft did with their Windows OS back in the late 90s/early 2000s.. with complete arrogance and without any urgency. They are so comfortable in their success that they're are really badly losing focus on making the best software products they can. It makes me wonder, who in Apple is fucking this up so badly? Does no one care, or do they honestly think things are going great? I have to change my computer that I need to sync my iPhone with, and it's going to be very painful. Why? This is 2015. Why doesn't anyone in Apple with their thousands and thousands of highly paid engineers not care, and which VP or PM is responsible for their software offering now being the best it could be? I would love to know.

therein 11y ago
I used to work for Apple as a Software Engineer (in fact as a part of a team very relevant to this issue) and left very quickly. It was the most uninspiring place I had ever worked or even interviewed at.
parasubvert 11y ago
"I have to change my computer that I need to sync my iPhone with, and it's going to be very painful. Why? " I have the opposite question for you - why is it painful? Assuming you have a Mac, you just restore from a Time machine backup with Migration Assistant. A bit of massaging is required getting passwords reset, etc., and your new computer is basically identical to the old one. I just did this a couple of months ago moving my personal Macbook Pro account & apps to my family iMac. On the other hand, the same applies for any iOS device if you're on iCloud. A few months back, a friend broke their phone badly on a trip, I wiped one of my phones and handed it to them to use. They restored their stuff in a couple of hours, and were productive again. When they returned it, I restored and had my old phone back identical to what it was in a couple of hours. Other than a couple of passwords and the endless series annoying taps when first initializing an iOS phone (this could be much better), there were no problems. YMMV, but this stuff mostly works for me.
- steven2012 11y ago
  I'm currently syncing on a very old MacBook and I want to move to my work MacBook. I can't Timemachine it.
  - parasubvert 11y ago
    For what it's worth, you can direct-connect the Migration Assistant as well via FireWire USB or (I think?) Ethernet.... I remember doing this back to the PowerBook days.

stephenr 11y ago

No? I'll agree iTunes needs work, and I've had some issues with iCloud Photo Library but this "Safari is the new ie6" thing is stupid. IE6 was never the most energy efficient browser on desktop or mobile devices. Mail contacts and calendar work well. They can even work with googles services if you like your email provider to read your mail before you do. Maps is anything but a disaster. Even in Thailand it gets me where I need to go when I don't know the way. You may have had bad experiences but don't assume that applies to all other users.

vacri 11y ago
> IE6 was never the most energy efficient browser on desktop or mobile devices "Browsing on mobile devices" didn't functionally exist when IE6 was released (2001). It would be years before 'mobile browsing' would be a usable thing. I loathe IE6 as much as the next non-frontend-dev, but you're asking IE6 to be something that it was impossible to be.
- stephenr 11y ago
  > you're asking IE6 to be something that it was impossible to be I'm not the one claiming Safari is "the new IE 6". The person I replied to (and many others) make that comparison, I'm just re-focussing the argument. > "Browsing on mobile devices" didn't functionally exist when IE6 was released (2001). For the masses? No. For corporate types? Maybe you should look into Windows CE and Pocket Internet Explorer. The argument that Safari is "the new IE6" is because Apple focus on user-facing features as a priority over developer focused features. They prioritise energy efficiency (and thus battery life) over absolute raw performance. Microsoft never had that approach with IE6 - the issue with IE6 wasn't that the focus of development was in the "wrong" place by developer opinions, it's that there was no development focus - it stagnated and received no updates.
  - boundlessdreamz 11y ago
    > Microsoft never had that approach with IE6 - the issue with IE6 wasn't that the focus of development was in the "wrong" place by developer opinions, it's that there was no development focus - it stagnated and received no updates. Apart from being more power efficient, there doesn't seem to be much user or developer focused development in Safari. It seems to be stagnating

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

lobster_johnson 11y ago

It's actually been a long time since Maps was a disaster. They fixed the problems, and (in my opinion) it's now better than Google Maps. Safari's case as a "new IE6" has been overstated, I think. It's fast and standards-compliant, and it's not lagging that far behind in catching up to the newest tech, as far as I know. And it's not like the other browsers don't have their share of serious issues. Mail and Calendar are actually great for apps that come bundled with the OS. One shouldn't see it as a failure on Apple's part that people choose third-party alternatives. I'd also argue that they're better than most third-party apps. (I use Fantastical instead of Calendar, but only because it has the awesome system menu dropdown. I use Mail, because Sparrow is no longer available, Airmail is too buggy, and Thunderbird isn't native.) Photos is a great iPhoto replacement. It's a bad Aperture replacement, and some people have issues with iCloud, but if you don't need Aperture and don't have these iCloud issues (and doubt most people do), then it's fine. iTunes is the main problem. It's tragically, hilariously bad. It was a decent, not great, app back in the early 2000s, back when iPods were the norm. Now, it's a trainwreck.